Benefit of spelling tests for delayed 7 yr old

[SparkleM]

Our 7 year old has a delay in all areas. He’s in Year 3, operating at a Year 1 level (first half of year 1).

His teacher introduced spelling tests in September. All the class have the same ten words (Spelling Shed) regardless of current level of attainment.

Surprisingly our son, with practice each night, has been getting 7/8/9 out of 10 most weeks. It’s been good for his confidence and probably is the only area academically where he’s had success at an age appropriate level. He has an amazing short term memory, hence the success.

The amount of work to achieve those results takes up quite a lot of time each evening. This involves learning the words and practicing legible writing. It’s taking up the time we used to use to help him in reading/writing/maths at his current developmental level. I wouldn’t question it if I could see a long term benefit. Confidence aside, he can’t spell the previous words once a week has passed. This in itself wouldn’t bother me if he retained a recognition of the words and could read them. He can only read about 3 out of 10 in each week’s list at a later date and hasn’t developed any more awareness of sounds.

Given that he’s learning spelling at the cost of other work we could be doing with him, would you continue (for the confidence/sense of inclusion in whole class activities) or ask the teacher to not include him in the testing and provide learning at a level relevant to his current attainment?

Would also be interested to know, do other schools just provide the same set of spelling words for the whole class?

Senco here. Firstly, does he have an EHCP? Has he had an EP assessment? What are his learning targets?
And no, what he's being asked to do is not appropriate.

My daughter is in year 3 and there are four categories of spellings to learn (on average, about 18 words per week). There’s a few that the whole class learn, then a few additional “challenge 1” words, a few “challenge 2” and a few “challenge 3”. So the most able children do all the words, and those at the lower end of the scale just do the core ones.

Thanks for your replies. He doesn’t have an EHCP and hasn’t had an assessment. He’s adopted and due to early experiences has had delay in most areas. I’m having an OT assessment done re fine motor skills and gross motor skills (re his writing and coordination).

My dc is y3 too.
We dont really do the spellings, i spend maybe 5min/wk just checking. As school goes over them anyway. Dc has got 10/10 every week except 1 so far.
We spend the time instead doing reading/maths/music etc.
In your dc situation i think there is no value to spending more than the 5 min doing spellings
as he is not retaining it
-he cant even read them all later

I dont think differentiated spelling is necessary, parents just need to decide how much time to spend on it.
Spelling is important but a lot of our spellings are phonetically regular or mainly so dc should just be remembering the irregularities.
Reading and pointing out spelling/grammar is probably more useful.
I would think schools are not intending 100% for all students and unlimited time spent doing it.
It's a bit similar to dc being 'expected' to read 5x a week (which we rarely do), what we actually do is more maths as that is where dc struggles. What would be the point doing more what we can do. Or conversely doing bits of maths that will be tested on but next week dc cant say remember number up to 100.
Not being able to read etc past yr 1 will be having more impact on him (and the class?) than getting maybe 1-5/10 on spelling he wont later remember.
But as you say it could help with writing.
However it may also help with long term memory. I think working on phonics and practising the words more say a few weeks later would achieve more than getting good marks one week. So maybe less time on the week's spellings more time on the years ones. Or understanding the spelling rule.

YANBU there is little benefit to that at all and it sounds like it's happening at the expense of developmentally appropriate work.

Hi Sparkle another adoptive parent here.

Seems a bit pointless doing the spellings. I'd ask to see the class teacher and ask for an opt out. Perhaps he could have e.g. phonics intervention instead whilst spelling tests are going on so it isn't obvious he isn't doing them?

How is the school using his PPP money to support him in catch up?

I have no clue how children's brain works, but if he finds learning spelling is easy, isn't that his strength? I can think of pattern learning, logic, so he can be quite good at maths too.
My dc was really good at learning spellings, but never good at other things like writing and comprehension at English, but it really helped to have confidence. At yr3, dc's English ability was average or even worse, but we did carry on, end result at yr6 was amazing.

He's not finding spelling easy as he can't remember them after the spelling test. It's why sending home lists of words to memorise for a test is poor practice for all children.

Norest, us parents know that well enough, but, what we want to know is what we can do about children like this. We really need positive input, not the negatives.

The OP asked about the benefit of spelling tests ..there aren't any benefits to sending home lists of words for children to memorise (Look, Cover, Write Check) for any child

I'm no expert, just a dyslexic mum.
I'd speak with the teacher about taking him out the tests. But either way I'd pour your energy into getting his reading up to the right level.

If he struggles with reading that's going to affect his ability to access other subjects, ie you can't solve maths problems if you can't read the question.

Spelling is a art kids just won't need in the future. Predictive text, word processing who hand writes anything these days?

I dont think differentiated spelling is necessary, parents just need to decide how much time to spend on it.

This is perhaps easier to believe when your child is one who consistently scores 10/10 rather than one who consistently scores less than 5/10 though?

I know they can’t all be great at everything blah blah, but when something as easily ranked/compared as a spelling test tells a child every week that their performance is not good enough, and when that is (often) in the context of them struggling more widely in the classroom (often not having a strong grasp of the phonics rules underlying regular spellings etc), that seems to be something of an argument for differentiation

Or indeed not doing spelling tests at all.

OP though, I wonder whether there is a positive impact on your child’s sense of academic achievement and self-esteem and engagement with school, as a result of their spelling test performances, and how you think that balances against the fact that it’s not educationally useful to them. I’ve known (as a parent myself, in a family of teachers) plenty of children who really struggle with feeling that they are academically not good enough, and others who have been comfortable and not had their self-worth affected by academic challenges, so I guess this would pan out differently on that basis.

Unfortunately predictive text and auto correct rely on spelling knowledge to a degree as evidenced by the many examples of predictive text gone wrong.

I'd say it is more a reading knowledge and being able to accurately read the words rather than spelling knowledge for predictive text.
Yip took me two attempts to get the spelling close enough for the word accurately to pop up.

But for a child who is struggling it's still far more important to focus on reading than spelling.
If they can't read as they get higher up the school it becomes harder to learn other subjects. Once reading is more solid then turn to spelling.

It's important to focus on both from the start ...but lists of words for tests isn't teaching spelling

Sparkle M
Spelling tests are a waste of time for most children. Learning to read is far more important. I would help him to learn to read the words he gets for the tests rather than to spell them. But if doing badly in them would upset him, then perhaps not. It depends on how much he enjoys learning them and the effort involved. My now adult son was a very poor speller at school and I kept telling him not to worry about it and concentrate on what he wanted to write. I don't think there is a write or wrong about this. Go with what you feel is best.

Thanks everyone for your comments. I am frustrated with the school for having the same lists of spelling for all. It feels like it means our son doesn’t stand a chance without over learning them in the way we currently do.

It is trying to weigh up whether the confidence and self esteem he gets from his success as a result of all the work we do is worth it for no longer term learning. And for our son this is the only experience that I can see that he has of the success in his 3 years at school already, might be the only success he has in the coming years given the gap between him and peers. If we say we are not putting in the current amount of time on spelling then I want to stress to the school that we don’t want him including in the testing. The children mark each other’s work and read the score to the teacher in front of all the class. Really don’t want it to be another source of shame. But in terms of long term I do strongly feel we have to focus on reading. It’s so hard when a child is delayed in every area.

Teenplustwenties - good question re pupil premium. I’ve raised with the school many times. They assign a TA to work with a small group of children struggling with reading/writing/phonics, have costed this up, and tell me this is how it’s spent. However I’m pretty sure that work would happen regardless of my son attracting pupil premium as it’s their existing TA for that class. They do not yet have a Pupil premium strategy for this academic year, and what information they have /what they fund assumes disadvantage due to financial issues not the needs of children in care/previously looked after.

Thanks again all for your views. I appreciate the time you take to post.

Their PP strategy should be published on their website, and there should (I think) be a governor with oversite of this.

This is our old Primary

I'd have a really hard think about what you want and then ask for meeting with class teacher & SENCO and ask for it. I can see why for self esteem you might want to continue but if it is ultimately time 'wasted' then surely there could be other ways to build self esteem, and then academic time go on something more lasting?

The class TA might well be at least part funded from PP money, but as you know the PP stuff is meant to be stuff not on 'general offer', though other children can piggy back onto it.

So e.g. if there are others at his phonics level, then them attending a phonics intervention with him is OK even if they aren't PP. Similarly if he has maths intervention and plays a board game to help with adding dice, then someone else to join in is good. But doing a phonics intervention pitched at a level above him wouldn't be right.

We let DD get priority for clubs (eg Drama) because of being PP (to help her self confidence), but then we didn't take up the monetary subsidy (because we were in the lucky position of not needing it).

Is there anything he is good at either in or out of school? DD2's self esteem really dipped in juniors as quite frankly she wasn't good at anything. From about mid y5 school started being really proactive in boosting her up and it really helped. Secondary have continued with this and it really helps her.

Academics is a marathon. You've about 8 years to try to close the gap, it doesn't all have to be achieved in y3&4.

I agree it is easier to say 'don't bother' if the child does learn them easily/spelling well from reading.
But the x/10 is just a number it actually doesnt represent,as shown here, spelling ability or retention or understanding and use in sentences.
Whilst i think it's important to try to do well i think the most important aspect is achieving the end objective, of spelling the words in writing.
Having spelling differentiated won't help either aim, to be able to spell or help self esteem as the child would know they only have 5 spellings. Plus by not covering them at all they will definitely be behind the class.
At the moment the differentiation the op is doing is to spend much longer on something other parents are not.
I think if this were times tables i would say persist as you need to get there in the end. But i think with spellings he will find it easier once reading /phonics is embedded.

I think the words for y4 do start to become more difficult so more pupils would start to need to spend longer. But wasting loads of time at 7/8 when they are behind on basics is not a good time spent.

At dc school they practise them at school too so reducing the need to do as much at home.

,Norestformrz, I know what OP asked, we know well enough that just learning spelling list is a waste of time, if we read MN. But the thing is, if that is what school wants to do, there are nothing we can do as parents.
On the forum like this with many experienced teachers, I would expect the teachers to give us parents the ways to help our children, using the things provided as a homework, like a spelling list. Saying it's a waste of time won't help, but giving other things to do with it, like looking up synonyms and using the word for writing sentences, etc, whatever, will help any children, imo.

OK SanjiNami I take your point
OP if you feel you must follow the school lists this blog may help
https://theliteracyblog.com/2019/04/23/the-weekly-spelling-list/
I wouldn't suggest looking up synonyms or using the word in a sentence as this increases cognitive load. I would simply discuss to make sure your child understands the meaning of each word.

Awkward1, Spelling does become much easier once reading is embedded. Phonics isn't much use for learning to spell English beyond a very basic level. Children imprint the likes of 'you, two, too' and 'through' mainly by seeing them repeatedly. For children who struggle with spelling more than most concentrating on reading, with little heed to spelling, is far more worthwhile.

But for reading irregular spellings also make life for slower learners harder than it could be (and any, here there were...). Going over the worst 100 or so of those repeatedly can be of great help to them (e.g. great treat'). They need to be imprinted on children's brains for reading too, not just spelling. In English, phonics is not always enough, for reading or spelling.

Sorry but reading doesn't ensure good spelling will follow. Many fluent readers struggle with spelling.
The best way to "imprint" words is to say the sounds (aloud or to yourself) as you write them. So if you want to spell you say /y/ as you write the y and /oo/ as you write the ou for two say /t/ as you write tw and /oo/ as you write the o (it can help to point out that words like twin and twice - refer to two things and start with tw ) through has an unusual spelling for the sound /oo/ so point this out . Focus on the parts of the word that your child finds tricky and ask if they can think of a word they know where the same sound is represented by the same spelling.

@Norestformrz that is exactly how my 10 year old spells. But how do you know if the /oo/ should be oo or ou? Perhaps not the best example. How do you work out if a word should end with le or el or al? (This is something I cant do either - we are both dyslexic). Cheers.

The ending is the most common after b, c, d, f, g, k, p, st, t, z. It never follows m, n, r, v, w.

If the ending is a suffix it's always al - magic - magical, survive - survival, comic - comical etc.