Child ahead in maths at school

[ilovewinterpansies]

My son (year 3) is distinctly average at everything at school apart from maths.

He's very good at maths and has always been top of the class. Sorry this is not a brag, bear with me.

My problem is he's bored as he finishes his maths quickly and has to wait for the rest of the class (30 kids, local state school).

I'm very happy with the school but his year 3 teacher doesn't give him extra tasks/harder work. He's just left to help others. I appreciate she's spread very thin but I worry that she's not making the most of my son's ability.

Any tips on how I can nurture this love and ability of maths? Extra classes/tuition (it won't be a chore for him, he loves it!) or maths club etc? I do bits at home when I can but it's hard as my DH and I work full time and have two younger kids too.

I live in SW London in case it helps to know where we are (for suggestions).

Thanks 😊

It seems to me he needs to have a 'special booklet' or something he can work through whilst waiting for the rest of the class. Something not just accelerating him through the curriculum, but parallel to it. e.g. logic puzzles, or something coding related. Something like the maths Olympiad but at a lower level perhaps? @noblegiraffe may have some suggestions.

What does his teacher say about his ability? And the fact he is bored waiting for others to finish?
Does he never make a mistake? I ask because in one of my classes, I have girl whose potential ability is the best I've seen in 25 years. She is always the first to finish everything and sits around "bored" waiting for the others. If she always did everything perfectly, I'd give her something else to do, but her very speed makes her careless, and as a result she's still excellent, but so are three or four others in every class.
Obviously, that may not be the case with your son, in which case it's surprising if the teacher isn't differentiating in any way.

Is it quite a small school?

DD (year 2) is very good at maths but they are set for maths and English in a 4 form entry school. She is top set and they have 6 ability set tables within the top set. She sits on the top table and they get extension work once she has finished the main work for the lesson. I’m not sure if they get different work the time other tables but I guess they must do or what would be the point in splitting them in that way.

I think most mixed ability classes do sometime like the traffic light system where the kids can pick the difficulty of the work. Your son shouldn’t just be waiting around, he should be given some extension work.

Although the lesson delivered is the same for all, the expectation varies based on ability. The teacher should be providing work for all needs. Have a word and clarify that he is helping others rather than doing extended work.
If he is quickly attaining full marks the teacher should extend the work. His work will evidence his level.

Have you heard of the Kangaroo maths challenge? Have a google - sounds right up his street. My DD is ahead of her peers - she gets extra tasks every week but has to finish her regular work first, even though it may be dull. Sometimes, she gets taken out of class to work in a little group in the communal area on extra tasks. Nice, but I feel it's a bit of an easy way to let them get on with it, rather than have structured instructions. The thing is though, if kids don't learn how to learn, they will strand at secondary school.

NRich has some good material, the mastery curriculum should be followed, avoid trying to teach him beyond the syllabus (although he may well work things out or himself). Primary maths challenge is great and a bright Y3 could tackle many of the problems. My Y3 is given work a few years ahead which to be honest isn't the least ideal as he still finds it dull (it's just arithmetic) and he's soon going to finish the primary curriculum and then what?

Thank you all. This is all useful stuff and I'll look into all the various suggestions (most of which I've never heard of before).

Will also speak to his teacher to get some sort of plan together. At parents evening she was very generic and tbh I don't have confidence in her from what I've seen. From speaking to other parents too it seems she should already have a plan in place for pupils who are ahead but that's not what it looks like so let's see.

Thanks again everyone, really appreciate your input.

london school of maths and programming do weekend and holiday courses:
www.londonsmp.co.uk/

beast academy is a challenging online maths programme designed for kids who are able in maths in US grades 2-5 (UK years 3-6).
beastacademy.com/

maths whizz is also good
www.whizz.com/

a book well worth reading :
www.amazon.co.uk/Developing-Math-Talent-Comprehensive-Elementary/dp/159363496X?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

I have girl whose potential ability is the best I've seen in 25 years. She is always the first to finish everything and sits around "bored" waiting for the others. If she always did everything perfectly, I'd give her something else to do, but her very speed makes her careless, and as a result she's still excellent, but so are three or four others in every class

so you know her potential, and you know she sits around bored, but you still aren't giving her something else to do, and you've chosen to put speech-marks around "bored" and link her carelessness to her speed rather than her boredom in order to justify your inaction. I'm sure that makes your life easier, but it sounds awfully like professional negligence to me.

I would look at accelerating his math knowledge after school and look at school time as the useful drilling in basics that increases math fluency. We are in the US, but look at the Johns Hopkins Center for Talented Youth, they have students world wide. Also Kahn Academy. Both are online programs he can do after school

extra
I think you're being unfair.

I've heard countless secondary maths teachers have a similar issue of bright students rushing through the work but making careless mistakes, not showing working out so throwing away marks, not including units in answers etc.

Some bright children seem to equate being intelligent with completing the work first and that's not always the case.

Often I find in y7 that the students who finish their essays and stories first aren't the very brightest in the class/year, and they rush through to say they're done but what they have produced isn't anywhere near the standard of other bright children who have listened to the time allowance and guidance and used the time effectively. I've also had parents complyto me about not giving their child more challenging work, but in the while first term their child has only met the basic standard for y7, not the challenging descriptors so the first port of call is for their child to slow down and work on achieving the extension descriptors.
I'm not sure where the "smart kids finish first" comes from but it's certainly not always true and finishing first can be different to achieving potential and mastering content.

OP I'd arrange to meet with the teacher, discuss what DC's strengths and weaknesses are, how early they are completing work (eg two minutes would be different to fifteen), ask her to talk you through DC's book, what sort of scores are they getting. That'll give you a current picture and then you can use some of the great suggestions from other posters to help discuss a way forward.

It's very easy to extend such a child at primary school.
My own DD was working two years ahead of her classmates in maths (IQ of 166, later did a maths degree), and the headmistress of her little state village primary simply contacted the secondary school in the nearest town and arranged for them to send their first and second year maths textbooks along for DD to work from.
She sat in the lessons with her own age group, but worked separately. Her teacher's DH was a physicist, and he helped mark her work when the teacher said she was rusty on high school maths!

@Babdoc

That's not actually an ideal approach as talented mathematicians need stretch beyond the syllabus not just acceleration. They should be following the mastery curriculum not just rushing onwards (although bright students are easily able to rush onwards). By doing the mastery curriculum they are actually intellectually challenged instead of just learning more they're forced to really use their analytical skills. Maths challenge is great as many of the questions don't require any actual knowledge but they do require problem solving skills.

There's a definite distinction between problem solving skills and basic fluency with arithmetic. Almost anyone can become very fluent by simply practising (although brighter children will develop fluency more quickly with less effort) and problem solving. The latter is certainly the more important skill as you go further with maths but there's very little emphasis on it in the primary curriculum.

@LolaSmiles

I agree that quickly completing arithmetic questions isn't particularly a sign of great ability in maths but I do think bright students often become careless when they're not sufficiently challenged. They don't show working because they're able to jump steps in their head, they make careless mistakes because they're unmotivated and bored. Of course they have to learn exam technique by the time they take GCSEs but it would be unfair to deprive them of the challenge that the other students get. I've tutored a number of students who went onto Oxbridge maths courses and many of them were frustrated and bored by maths and school and didn't consider themselves particularly good at it. When properly challenged the change was dramatic.

IceCreamFace
True. I've also seen that happen. It's why I think the OP is best asking to see their DC's books.

One thing I find in English (which is different by nature but the principle is similar) is that we set analytical tasks or creative writing and the challenge comes from really thinking about the texts/creative writing and that higher level thinking is the challenge. Some bright students would sooner finish first and sit expecting a gold star for being smart rather than persevere and struggle with the challenging tasks. That's often because the 'finish first is a sign of being smart' rhetoric is picked up when younger.

There's a risk of boredom as well as a risk of them being sloppy.

Where I've had to field questions from a parent as a form tutor and I was fairly sure the issue was the maths teacher not stretching them, my first port of call is to look at the student's book and the tests and if it was full of errors I always advised them and their parents to ensure that there's no mistakes if they want to make their case their DC needs more as to be objective, it's 6 weeks in and their DC isn't mastering the curriculum at the moment so there's no evidence they require additional work. Once the child slows down and does the work properly (which is an important skill in itself instead of cutting corners and rushing 'because I'm clever') then there's grounds for discussing further.

@LolaSmiles True. Come to think of it I've definitely had the problem of a parent asking me to accelerate their child more as they already understood this aspect of the syllabus, when in reality while the child did understand the basics of the topic they had nowhere near the fluency to actually answer standard questions on it, let alone questions that require a greater depth of understanding. They were just desperate to rush through as fast as possible. I think most kids are fairly bored by endless arithmetic but keeping them engaged has to be balanced by actually developing the fluency they need with numbers.

Icecreamface, it worked very well for DD. She sat her Higher Maths a year early, ditto Advanced Higher Pure Maths, and left school with 5 straight A’s in Highers and Advanced Highers, was offered places at both Cambridge and Durham for her maths degree. She’s 30 now, with a good graduate career in risk analysis.
As well as accelerating her curriculum, the school entered her in the European Kangaroo maths challenge, where she did very well and collected various prize certificates.
She enjoyed reading around the syllabus with maths books recommended by her teachers too.

@Babdoc

Neither DH or I got accelerated at all in maths or Science - we just got left bored at school and we both graduated in the top 10 of the Tripos at Cambridge but I don't think that's the ideal way to educate. Accelerating works to a limited extent but there now exist much better resources for challenging bright students. If they end up years ahead they eventually run out of school topics to study and they would be at a social disadvantage if they actually moved year groups ahead or went to university early. The more difficult primary maths challenge problems pose far more of an intellectual challenge for a primary student than simply learning GCSE material.

The more difficult primary maths challenge problems pose far more of an intellectual challenge for a primary student than simply learning GCSE material
We say the same for English too. Increasingly primary schools take books previously at KS3 and teach them to y5/6 in the name of challenge but they aren't studied to the depth we used to do. They'd be much better going for breadth of texts than taking texts typically studied in older years. The same for using KS3/4 texts as extension reading regardless of whether the child has the emotional and social maturity to handle the themes (eg deathly hallows in y5 / Macbeth in y6)
For example, I've had some parents seek different work because their child has already "done" A Christmas Carol / Macbeth / Frankenstein etc. The thing is that reading them without the maturity to understand many of the themes sounds good but doesn't actually stretch the child as much. They'd have been better off going for a range of genres, entering creative writing competitions, going to author visits, etc with home and in school giving them different creative writing tasks or satellite tasks from the main class novel etc.

Sometimes there's a desire to keep leaping years and pushing for the next age group when long term breadth of subject knowledge and application would be better.

Sometimes there's a desire to keep leaping years and pushing for the next age group when long term breadth of subject knowledge and application would be better.

Glad you said that, my DC are primary (and while both solid readers neither are exceptional in that area). There does seem like a lot of parents in their school push for "harder" books, with the threshold being that the children can read and vaguely follow the plot. English is definitely not my subject but I did feel it would be better for them to actually appreciate more simple books than muddle their way through texts they don't have the maturity for yet.

Absolutely IceCreamFace. A broad exposure to different subjects is better overall in most situations. The more children get a range of texts, write in a range of styles, look at a range of logic problems, applications of mathematical concepts etc the better. In geography, if the class are looking at volcanoes then stretch and challenge for the most able could be giving them different case studies to compare to the main example once they've completed the work Vs jumping to ks3 plate tectonics in depth.

The other thing I think it's worth considering is the role of subject specialists in supporting more able students. It's possible for a well meaning generalist (who is an amazing primary teacher) to accidently introduce misconceptions if stretch for able students is just giving them work from older years, whereas subject specialists can anticipate misconceptions, how those misconceptions could impact future learning and teach with that in mind.

For example, it's fairly common now for Boy in the Striped Pyjamas to be taught and read in y5/6, previously it was KS3. There's a range of issues with the text, but how many parents and teachers cover that text with 9-11 year olds without pointing out the whole book is historically ridiculous and that Shmuel would have been murdered on arrival? That Bruno would never have got that close to the camp? That it's linguistically questionable whether a German child brought up under Nazi rule would think the camp was called Out with and be clueless about what was going on?
At the end (spoiler alert) the sympathy ends up being with Bruno's parents for losing their child in a tragic accident rather than genocide. The list goes on. There's also a range of questionable tasks I've seen accompanying teaching resources that demand a level of emotional maturity and empathy that's so far beyond most children so it becomes full of clichés.

The OP would be best placed to seek broad and secure mathematical foundations rather than ploughing on.

Thank you all for the incredible insight and advice.

I'm reassured because I spoke to my DS' teacher today and she reiterated much of what's been said ie that it's more important for him to have a deeper understanding of each stage than to plough onto the next stage early.

She recommended logic games and puzzles and said sudoku and kokuro are also good.

English requires some degree of emotional maturity and life experience to understand. Maths does not. Asking a child to analyse Frankenstein when they are Y6 is very different from a mathematically able child doing calculus at the same age.

If it were a choice between dd doing maths years ahead in year 6 or playing sudoku, I would choose the maths. Sudoku is not maths.

Dd was accelerated through maths and has ended up a very strong mathematician. I agree that depth is good, but cannot understand this myth that accelerating an able child through maths will be detrimental to their ability.

@JustRichmal I can see your point but the flip side (I'm told) is that accelerating them would mean they're bored in later years.

So the theory is that extra time should be spent on a greater understanding and being faster at maths at the current level.

Interested in your conflicting view and experience though. My main worry is that I don't want to make any extra learning a chore so am trying to keep things fun for now.

I am all for keeping maths teaching fun, especially if you are doing it at home. Dd liked doing maths anyway. I always had the attitude that if she was ready to learn the next thing in maths, I might as well teach her. 1to1, they can learn a lot faster than in a class of 30.

They can go on to further maths at A level if they do GCSE and A level maths early. They could also do all 6 modules in further maths if they wanted, rather than just 4. They will not run out of maths to do.

It is just a lot easier for schools if they all learn at roughly the same pace. However, in secondary, dd was happy just sitting quietly doing her own study in maths classes; a lot happier than having to go over things she had learnt 2 or 3 years ago, like she did in primary.

If you did not want to accelerate ds, nrich is an excellent website. I'm not saying accelerating is the right way to go; just trying to refute the myth that it is detrimental to the child's maths ability.

You do sound as though you have teachers who are listening. All I was told was that dd was not as far ahead as I was saying she was, so they were not going to put anything in place for her.