School troubles

[KirstyCx]

Hi everyone, my first time and thread here. I don't know what to do and I really need some advice. I feel like my son's school are giving up on my defiant 6 year old son. They keep calling me to pick him up early when he is becoming difficult to manage. Is this ok for them to do? I don't understand how they can do this. They had also asked me to keep him off school for the day because he wasn't allowed to go on a short trip with his class. That's not right either surely

They are risking an illegal exclusion and you could refuse. What strategies are they putting in place to deal with your ds and how are you reinforcing this at home? Has he been assessed for additional needs?

Hello thank you for your message. We have done a risk assessment, an EIP and they have reduced his timetable however none of this seems to be effective and they are just calling me every time he becomes difficult.

They can’t just send him home unless (a) they exclude him or (b) you and the school set up a flexi-school agreement.

Ask them for the contact details of your education welfare officer and give him/her a call for advice.

When they phone ask whether they are excluding him. If they say no, then don't go and get him.

You need to have a meeting about his needs and how he can be supported. If they don't think they can meet his needs using the resources they have then they need to start the process of applying for an EHCP for him.

They keep calling me to pick him up early when he is becoming difficult to manage. Is this ok for them to do?

Yes as long as it's formally recorded (you should receive a letter clarifying it). If it isn't you could ask the school what they are putting in place to support your DC so he can stay in school. Unfortunately some schools lack staff due to budget cuts to support children experiencing difficulties. This means the school either chooses to keep the disruptive child in school to the detriment of the class learning, or excludes them in some capacity (either internally or externally). It can be difficult to balance the needs of all pupils in school.

As for excluding from school trip - can you explain why? Was it due to Health and Safety and a Risk Assessment done do you know? How does his defiance manifest - is he aggressive/violent in any way?

Thank you all for your advice. I really appreciate it. In all fairness they have done a great deal to support him, calm area, fidget box (he struggles to keep still) activities, regular support sessions for his emotions, they have been in touch with the educational psychologist who have given strategies for dealing with his behaviour and supporting his emotions. However none of this actually seems to be effective. Regarding the trip, they didn't feel his behaviour was good enough for him to attend and so his teacher asked me if I could keep him off school for that particular day but of course I was unhappy with that request because I thought that surely they should have put something in place for him so that he doesn't have to miss a day of school.

Does he have a diagnosed condition of any sort and are the school looking to apply for an ehcp.

It looks like the quite good sounding support isnt really working and they need to get a better idea of whats going on and what more support is needed in time for a smooth tranition to secondary.
It is positive an EP has made suggestions - have a speech and language therapist and an Occupationsl Therapist assessed him?
They are on very shakey ground with the trip - i would consider asking they record it as an exclusion. Its not fair to keep innacurate records.

They don’t have to take him on the trip but they can’t say he has to stay at home. Has he been referred for assessment for any SEN?

Asking to keep him home is illegal exclusion. Only ever take him home if its in writing formally. Sounds worse for your child but means correct procedures are followed.

Could you go on the trip with him As a volunteer so he doesn’t miss out?

I can understand them not wanting the child to go on the trip. If there is a risk he would run off, disrupt the trip, hurt others etc it would be better for him to stay off. Spare a thought for the teachers too - school trips are difficult and stressful for staff, they have a lot of responsibility on their heads, it is very difficult to manage lots of children on a trip and the priority must be safety for all.

Do you struggle with him on trips yourself?
I imagine it's much worse with other kids too on a trip.
In fact ive said no to things when dc has been having a flare of bad behaviour.
Imo trips are based on assumptions of normal behaviour for that age.
I had serious concerns in reception for trips. But i think schools shpuld do more as it is very likely there is some sort of SN/SEN etc so they should feel bad blaming parents etc.

Look at adhd /odd or asd pda.
One is quite anxiety.
My kid is very defiant but it can be worse when ill or anxious.
It is a battle to get shoes on and ready for school as always something else they have to do.

I dont think our school is the right fit.
As now dc is just labelled and blamed (even for insignificant things)
Dc is very bright and would do so much better if the school had ever acknowledged, but no not one award/certificate ever despite being years ahead.
If not challenged dc does create challenges. Dc wants to see if we realise they have done xyz (hidden the keys, written in siblings book/not eaten their sandwiches. Or can i tell they are lying etc.
It's exhausting living with challenging dc. Dc does not recognise adult etc authority. If i want them to finish a swimming level they wont, its months now on the same thing.
Dc2 is very difficult too, but i find dc1 so unpredictable. Dc2 seems to realise they have to behave for other people (clutches straws hard), dc1 everyone is equal. They may be slightly easier for GP but probably only because having fun not respect etc. I punish and remove items i explain etc but it makes no difference

Not allowing a child with SEN to go on an educational trip in school time is an unlawful exclusion. I would contact your LAs SEN department urgently. We know SEN DC are more likely to be excluded than other children. Especially ones with behaviour needs. They cannot keep asking you to get him either. That is also excluding him from school. He needs a “statement” EHC Plan to address his needs. You should be pushing very hard for this. They often ensure some 1:1 help. Your DS is entitled to education. He’s not entitled to harm other children so his needs should be met in trying to minimise class disruption.

You should address your concerns with the Head. It’s clearly a bit more than defiance. As he’s been seen by an Ed psych the school is making sure they are trying to do something. However as it’s not working a review is vital (you should have this anyway). You need to escalate this now.

Thanks for all of your comments. I have never dealt with this before and so I really don't know much about what help we can get and what steps we can take to go down the correct path. I have made an appointment with his teacher, head teacher and head of SEN to discuss what we should do next. I feel like this is the beginning of a difficult journey ☹️ I just want my son to be happy

Of course you do. The school has been proactive but you need to ask them about how to achieve the EHC plan. This should be the way forward. The SEN board within education has very knowledgeable posters who can help.

If he is six, then presumably he’s been in school for over a year. Is this behaviour recent, or has it been difficult from the beginning. I assume it’s escalated this term, despite whatever strategies have been put in place.

Is he hurting other children or adults, or is he refusing to do as he’s told? Schools have so little access to EPs these days that they must be feeling that it’s serious. His IEP should be revised regularly to see whether any of the strategies are working and to plan next steps. Bearing in mind that the school has taken on board what was suggested by the EP and that doesn’t seem to be making a difference, I would ask for a meeting with the relevant people and ask whether they plan to apply for an EHCP. If not, why not and what is the future plan? There should be a proper plan, not simply calling you to take him home on a regular basis.

They picked up on possible sensory processing issues during reception, his reception teacher is head of SEN. From then his behaviour progressively got worse but was manageable. His aggressive behaviour began a couple of months ago. He regularly hits his teachers and occasionally will push the children or get into an altercation with some of them. Bear in mind there are many children in his school with Sen and so I think he clashes with these children. Unless it really suits him then he will refuse to do what he's told, it's a huge fuss just to get his shoes on or even brush his teeth sometimes. I have an appointment next week and I'll definitely mention the ehcp, I just really had no knowledge of this before. Thank you everyone you've really helped me a lot, I appreciate all of your advice 😊

Hello @Xo94 can I ask what ended up happening here?

@KirstyCx

@Friend1010 - I doubt you will get an answer. Neither of these posters has posted anything since 2020. If you are having similar issues and want some advice, you should start your own thread. However, the law has not changed. If your child's school is asking you to pick them up early, that is an illegal exclusion. Refusing to take your child on a trip during school time and insisting they stay at home is also an illegal exclusion.