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Original poster

How can we help boys who suffer from the belief that being clever is uncool?

28 replies

TooTicky · 16/08/2007 13:57

A few days ago, I overheard ds1 saying that if you are clever people make fun of you and you have no friends, so that's why he "acts dumb".
This seems to be worse for boys than girls.
I know he hasn't been working to the best of his abilities (to put it mildly) but didn't realise that this was why

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FluffyMummy123 · 16/08/2007 13:58

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frogs · 16/08/2007 14:01

Depends on what role models they have. My ds's class is full of smart boys from all backgrounds one-upping each other about who is best at what, from football to times tables. Which also has its downsides, but on balance better than the 'football is cool, maths is dumb' brigade. Find him some smart and cool slightly older boys to hang out with.

FluffyMummy123 · 16/08/2007 14:02

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Mercy · 16/08/2007 14:08

Haven't got any personal experience of this (yet) but I know 2 boys who are very bright and haven't so far experienced this.

It may be that they are 'cool' because the older boy (14) plays football and plays the guitar. The other boy is mad on skateboarding and is musical too.

speedymama · 16/08/2007 14:13

Our DTS are surrounded by academic eggheads so hopefully that will motivate them.

DH and I have PhDs, so does their aunt who is currently at Harvard, so does one of their male cousins and 3 of their godparents have PhDs too! DH has nearly finished his MBA too.

The PhDs are in chemistry, chemical engineering and immunology so with any luck, this will feed their interest in the sciences.

Original poster
TooTicky · 16/08/2007 14:26

It's a small school. Good, but small (2 years to a class) so not much scope for finding different groups of friends.
His SATS results were amazing and shocked his teacher (of course I knew he was bright) but he just won't make an effort in class.
Maybe there is a little too much emphasis on sport in school - something he doesn't excel in.
WHY are schools not making academic subjects more cool?

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Original poster
TooTicky · 16/08/2007 14:27

He is desperate to be cool.

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kerala · 16/08/2007 14:30

Had this at my school. My sister used to purposefully do badly in tests as she was so fed up of being labelled a "swot" (she ended up with a first class degree). I dont know what the answer is but fear it is endemic in some schools.

frogs · 16/08/2007 14:33

Maybe he doesn't need to make an effort to do well? That was a bit of an issue with dd1, and took a while to get over.

Can you find him an immensely cool out of school activity he can do? Karate is considered pretty cool, or fencing. A major confidence booster for dd1 at age 8 was spending a week at a residential activity camp in Somerset -- they do lots of physical but non-competitive stuff and were very good at pushing the children out of their comfort zone without making them feel like failures if they wanted to back out of something. When I went to pick her up, it was like finding a different child (in a good way). It had the same effect on a friend's slightly dyspraxic, mildly eccentric and non very cool 8yo a couple of years ago.

margoandjerry · 16/08/2007 14:33

flipping heck speedy...

TooTicky I understand your post. My nephews are only five and three but already the older one is coming under pressure to be interested in football (which he isn't, at all, but pretends to be) when he's actually interested in books and history.

Their parents are also very educated and bookish so the home environment is very supportive of academic achievement but peer pressure is so powerful.

I really think it's time to rise up against this stupid culture that venerates big brother and football and celebrity over hard work and achievement...Don't quite know how though.

speedymama · 16/08/2007 14:36

TooTicky

DH and I were never interested in being cool. We just wanted to be top in everything we did. I guess it comes down to ones innate desires and motivation as well as if you are susceptible to peer pressure.

DH and I are very similar in that we were never part of the cool set and it did not bother us one bit because we derived our satisfaction from our studies.

Hopefully, our twin boys will be self-reliant too and be able to resist negative peer pressure.

hotcrumpets · 16/08/2007 14:37

I agree with frogs

The being really clever/getting called a swot seems to not happen if it is balanced out with some kind of 'cool' hobbies or activities

Can you intrest him in any out of school hobbies that the other children would admire etc

kerala · 16/08/2007 14:38

Agree margoandjerry. I read an article a few weeks ago that some schools have identified this anti intellectualism as a real problem and are tackling it by trying to change the culture in their schools.

It is depressing and worryingly stops some children fulfilling their potential.

margoandjerry · 16/08/2007 14:38

speedy is right on that. I was not cool at school (was the one and only member of maths club ) but I quite liked being that way.

Maybe it's harder for boys because they are givenless leeway to be different - tiny bit of difference means "gay" to eight year olds as far as I can tell...

kerala · 16/08/2007 14:42

Yes, you survive as a clever kid in an anti intellectual type school if you are strong minded and have supportive parents or are good at a cool thing like sport. My dh was derided at his rough school because he worked hard but survived as he was sporty.

He did say he couldnt resist a snigger on A level results day when the "cool" kids who had made his life a misery all failed their exams and realised they couldnt go to uni - he went to cambridge. oops

frogs · 16/08/2007 14:43

It's about confidence, too. Some children have bags of social confidence whatever their talents and interests, and get away with it that way. Some are really not bothered what the other kids think and handle it that way (sounds like speedymama's approach). Others are genuinely socially inept to the point that it would probably be an issue regardless of their ability.

But in between all of these are lots of boys who just need some help in developing their self-confidence, and to learn that there will always be some other kids making a stupid comment, and that somewhere along the line they just have to learn to ignore it. It is worth pointing out (repeatedly, probably) that kids may make stupid comments because they are jealous of other kids being smarter than them. This dynamic is not nearly as obvious to a child as it is to adults, and it does sometimes help if you spell it out to them.

speedymama · 16/08/2007 14:57

Frog hit the nail on the head: CONFIDENCE.

My confidence came from my innate knowledge and firm belief as well as my parents support that I could achieve whatever I wanted irrespective of the fact that I was the daugher of Jamaican immigrants. I always said to my parents when I received negative angst from school colleagues and teachers "I'll show them" and I did!

DH's confidence came from the fact that he believed that he was more intelligent than everybody else in his class and therefore he had to come top. And he did!

Neither of us sought validation or acceptance from others and that is why we are both driven - we do it for our own self-worth, not others.

Carbonel · 16/08/2007 21:25

Frogs - can you tell me more about the residential courses please. We are near Somerset and my dd especially suffers from lack of confidnce so these may help her no end

Thanks

frogs · 16/08/2007 22:47

Mill on the Brue is the place my dc go to. It's in Bruton, fairly obviously, and is just a really fab place family run, unlike some of its competitors and non-profit making. The pastoral care is exceptionally good. It's the highlight of the year for my dc they talk about it all year.

Original poster
TooTicky · 16/08/2007 22:54

The camp looks good but we couldn't afford it. For a start dd1 would want to go too. Now dd1 is a different kettle of fish... extremely bright and proud of it. Poor love doesn't have any friends partly due to this and partly other circumstances () but she will let no one overtake her academically.

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Original poster
TooTicky · 16/08/2007 22:54

Okay, how does one build a boy's confidence?

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Carbonel · 16/08/2007 23:01

Thanks Frogs. Looks frighteningly expensive but will certainly check it out. Not too far from us so maybe a good excuse for a trip!

frogs · 16/08/2007 23:06

It is expensive, but no more so than similar holidays from other providers. We're not paying school fees, so I make a conscious decision to pay for this instead. But I realise that we are lucky to be in a position to (just about) afford it.

TooTicky, you build a boy's confidency by... I don't know, just talking to him a lot. And finding things he can do outside school that challenge him. Sailing club? Fencing? Martial arts? And talking some more. And ideally finding a few cool older boys who're prepared to take him under their wing.

It does get better. Gradually. But the school needs to have the right ethos in place too -- if you're swimming against the cultural tide, it's bound to be that much harder.

Original poster
TooTicky · 16/08/2007 23:27

He is going through a v. difficult time atm anyway. Sort of desperate to grow up and rejecting things which I suspect are still dear to him but still having little boy moments. And I spend far too much time shouting because he spends far too much time hitting people and I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

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christywhisty · 17/08/2007 12:57

I have been very lucky with DS. Firstly because Ds's class as some very bright boys.
Also Ds's best friend LS from reception was the coolest boy in the class and completely non academic, football playing mischief maker. DS was never really into football etc.From what I gather LS actually admired DS for being clever although it probably helped that DS had to have extra help with spelling.

I had one teacher's telling me that it was in DS's imagination that LS was his actually his BF because they were so unalike and ds just wanted to be friends because LS was cool.DS was having a few problems at school but turned he had chronic sinus problems and was feeling rotten for months.

LS told me that when they grew up he and DS were going into business together taking reptiles round schools, so definitely not ds's imagination.

In Year 6 ds has changed his circle of friends and is now with the other brainy ones but there is still a fondness for each other. I know LS has been teasing some of DS's newer friends for being geeks etc but I do wonder if that was caused by a touch of jealousy.