ALREADY ACCEPTED SCHOOL PLACEMENT BEING WITHDRAWN!

[Elzemni]

Help!

An already accepted school placement is being taken away because my landlord decided to renovate his property and i had to moved out way after school application deadline.

Basically I applied as normal like the rest of us parents for my 4 year olds school placement. Luckily he got a placement of first choice, visited the school and met his school teacher. Only to be sent an email from the local authority three weeks before him starting school requesting for proof of residency.

So i sent them the required documents again making them aware that my son is starting school on the 5th of September and will be starting as
normal.

However schools like to now come over and visit the child at their home address, so a day before me and my son were waiting for his teacher to arrive however she didn't show.

After calling the school and asking where the teacher was i was told to expect a call back for an update. Within 10 minutes i received the call only to be told that the placement had been withdrawn, i then explained to the receptionist i didn't receive an email only to be told "yes they will email you later today".

the day went by and nothing nor did i get one the following morning so as normal at 1.30pm i took my son in to school to visit his teacher and the rest of his class.

Upon arrival his teacher looked at me and said that he can't be here and i need to go to the school office as children and parents stood outside the class waiting to go in.

Bearing in mind im heavily pregnant and am due to give birth at any given moment. So i explained let's go in and let my son settle in and i will go and have a chat with
the office.

Few moments later the head teacher arrived and took me to her office, as soon as we sat down i was told that my son isn't allowed in school and it would be "illegal" of her to have him there as his place has been withdrawn.

I then asked yes i was told this yesterday on the phone that you had received an email can i have a look at this email, only for them to retract their statement and say oh no they told us over the phone! However i explained i had not received any correspondence and i was still waiting to hear from the local authority (LA).

The headteacher sat there really trying to patronise me explaining that i'm no longer living at the address when i had applied and that this place was now being withdrawn.

I then went on and asked her three simple questions: when applying for schools who do you apply to? she replied "local authority"

i then asked: who are school placement given by? she replied "local authority"

finally i asked and who has the right to take a placement away? to which she replied "local authority".

So my question was why am i sat here being told otherwise when they haven't even replied! further more rather then having your support given my circumstances i feel as if your trying to push me out because of something that was beyond my control!

The receptionist lady then popped her head from the door to tell me she had the LA on the phone, i explained i was waiting for them to email me so i'm fine not in a hurry to speak to them. (as to me my son has his position and is in school)

The head teacher then jumped out her seat to say "oh il have a word with them".
i waited for around 10 minutes only for the headteacher to walk in with an email from the LA to the school saying they hadnt received any information as required and that my placement will be withdrawn!

i then pointed out to the headteacher what i was saying to her 15 minutes ago that rather than having her support she wants me out and now she's waving an email in my face to say my son cant come back to school his place had been withdrawn and the LA will email me later! Now how does that work a school being told before the parent? the teacher then said if i was to bring my son in to school the following day she would then have to call the police!

i was not happy but kept my cool and went to grab my son who i found not in the room
with the rest of the children but with a teacher in an office reading him a book! they wanted my son out!

i then left, went home and contacted the LA explaining emails had been sent and nothing had been looked in to but simply on the say so of a headteacher my sons place in being withdrawn.

I explained i was due to have a baby at any given moment and resent the previous emails to show i did send what they required.

The position offered to my son was not at all conditional upon him remaining at the same address at the point of application. They had for some time details of the change of address and failed to take any measures in a sensible and judicious manner. It has been over two weeks now and my son is still not in school because it's states in their policy that a child needs to be living at the address from january 2019 up until September 2019 and beyond. this needs to be his normal place of residency which it was to be fair until due to unforeseen circumstances i had to move!

I simply don't know what to do is this fair? can they take his already accepted placement on their policy of having to still be living at the address?

The OP wasn’t forced to move out of the catchment area. She chose to move out of the catchment area and rent elsewhere. She could have chosen to rent within the catchment area

Catchment areas are a bit of a myth. Most schools' admission policies simply work on geographical proximity, and the limits of admissions on that basis vary from year to year. In one year offers may go to children up to, say, 1000m away, the next year the school gets popular and only children living within 500m succeed. You may get a place despite living in another borough if you live geographically close enough.

And unless you know exactly where OP lived, you're hardly in a position to say that she could easily have moved to another rental property precisely the same distance from the school as her original address.

You didn’t provide the requested evidence in the required time.

Yes she did. The council would have checked her address and been satisfied that it was properly evidenced - i.e. that she was living at the address given in the application - at the time the place was offered.

It’s very very clear in admissions code this is a sufficient reason for withdrawal of offer

No, the Admissions Code does not say this anywhere. The Admissions Code is clear that this is NOT sufficient reason for withdrawing an offer. The OP accepted the offer, which means she responded within a reasonable period of time. The LA cannot layer further requirements on top of that.

The OP wasn’t forced to move out of the catchment area

We know she was forced to move. We don't know whether there was other accommodation available near the school. But it doesn't matter whether she was forced out of the catchment area or not. She was forced to move, so this is not a case of a parent renting to get a place then moving as soon as the place was offered.

By couldn’t OP (in theory) take them to court? What would stop her just perusing it that far (not suggesting this is a good idea btw)

She could apply for judicial review. That is expensive. Far better to start with an appeal (which is free) and, if necessary, a reference to the LGO (also free). Court should be a final resort when all else has failed.

The admissions policily is clear. She chose not to tell them. She said herself she knew it was out of area and had it not been for the school doing home visits then school wouldn't have been aware.

In a situation where moves for school admissions are fairly common, I don't understand why anyone who wouldn't be affected by a move in such circumstances would think "hmm I'm moving out of area and the policy says I should inform... I know I'll do nothing even when told to and then wonder why the deception is taken at face value" instead of telling the school (just like you would with any address changing for moves) and keeping it all nice and simple

As I said above, I do think it makes sense for her to appeal.

It just strikes me as ridiculous that this whole situation could have been avoided by simply telling school about the address change, and she'd have kept the place. No fuss. No drama.

I get your frustration OP

I think; to the school it looks like you put down an address within the schools borough and catchment area to ensure your son gets a space and then as soon as he did, you ‘moved’ or as they see it - you gave your real address.

I get that your annoyed but when the headteacher had the LA on the phone, why didn’t you speak to them to try and clear things up or get confirmation from them ?

Also I’m curious as to why you keep mentioning your heavily pregnant ?? No offence but how is that relevant.

Pregnant or not, unfortunately they have a protocol and they have to follow it. The school did seem to go abit over the top with “you have to go or we will call the police” - however I feel they were so dramatic as you seem to not be listening and feeling like you call the shots here and regardless of what they say; you feel your right.

I’m not going to lie, some part of this all sounds like you just want your son in the school and you know you did wrong but regardless; you want him in the school and he HAS to go to that school.

Are you going to be moving back to your original home after the renovations have finished ? Because if not - again; it’s unfortunate and I’d hate to be in that situation but, if your not even living in the borough anymore - why should he get the school place ?

Being so ‘heavily pregnant’, you clearly need to take it easy and a closer school in your new borough sounds like the best way to go.

Good luck OP

@prh47bridge

It is abundantly clear in the admissions code that not providing requested info in a reasonable time frame is sufficient grounds

2.12 An admission authority must not withdraw an offer unless it has been offered in error, a parent has not responded within a reasonable period of time, or it is established that the offer was obtained through a fraudulent or intentionally misleading application. Where the parent has not responded to the offer, the admission authority must give the parent a further opportunity to respond and explain that the offer may be withdrawn if they do not. Where an offer is withdrawn on the basis of misleading information, the application must be considered afresh, and a right of appeal offered if an offer is refused.

@prh47bridge

The request for evidence comes after acceptance of offer

Also I’m curious as to why you keep mentioning your heavily pregnant ?? No offence but how is that relevant.

It’s not. In the slightest.

lovemenorca

What 'evidence' are you referring to? (the paragraph that you quote doesn't mention the word 'evidence')

My understanding of the details is that OP applied for a school place. Offer made and accepted then OP immediately moved out of Borough.
OP will have had 2 months notice of her move, and must have had a new address when the offer was made but at no time did she inform the LA. My interpretation of this would be that she purposely failed to inform the LA as she knew she may not get an offer at that school.
It all hinges on dates. I.e. When she was given notice to move, when she knew what her new address would be.
The LA removed the offer because the school did a home visit and clearly the OP was no longer living there. They may have even spoken to the builders who told them they'd been renovating the property for months.

A parent has not responded in a reasonably amount of time.

If the Op has not responded with evidence then she’s not responded in a reasonable amount of time.

I’ll leave you to debate. Fact is, this child will not be going to the school the OP wants.

Op, did you know you would be moving out at the time of the application. If you can show when your landlord gave you notice you can prove it wasn't fraudulent and then you have a case.

lovemenorca that may well not be true if OP can engage constructively with the LA.

She has provided 'evidence'. She provided her address when she submitted the application and her new address when the LA contacted her over the summer.

These addresses are different - but she was offered and accepted a place based on the address she was living in at the time of application, which is the only lawful address that she could make an application from at the time.

Even if she knew that she would be moving in the near future, she could only lawfully make an on time application from the address where she was living on the deadline for submitting applications.

*A parent has not responded in a reasonably amount of time.

If the Op has not responded with evidence then she’s not responded in a reasonable amount of time.*

Surely that means they havn't responded to the offer of a place.

"- the place has been offered in error

• the parent has not responded to the offer
• the application was fraudulent or intentionally misleading

No mention of having to respond to a request for evidence after an offer has been made.

OP - you mentioned having to move because of building works. Do you own a home that is being renovated, hence the move to a rented property and then did you move back to your own 'owned' home? That's how I read this. If so, that could be counted as fraudulently applying from an address because it's not your main residence, and then the council would have been fine to withdraw your offer. If you don't own a home and have just moved from one rented property to another then I can't see what grounds they can withdraw your offer from.

Brillo - from the OP's very first post

An already accepted school placement is being taken away because my landlord decided to renovate his property and i had to moved out way after school application deadline.

@lovemenorca - The paragraph you quote gives the LA the ability to withdraw the offer if the parent does not respond to the offer in a reasonable amount of time. It dos not give them the ability to withdraw the offer if the parent does not respond to other communications such as a subsequent demand for proof of address. As you correctly say, the request for information comes after the offer has been accepted so is not within the scope of paragraph 2.12.

We moved unexpectedly about four weeks after the deadline, still locally but further away due to the landlord selling.
In our area as long as the address was permanent at the time of application there was no issue. I contacted the LA and was honest with them and we kept our place.

Imo the code shpuld be changed to - must be in residence at the address when school starts.

Anyway it sounds like op has an appeal case.
But i feel most sorry for the kids - including hers who will have 31 in the class because op didnt inform of the move. I have to say if it were clearer la just needs to know but wouldnt withdraw place the op and others wouldnt 'forget' to notify.

Im wondering the dates from landlord telling need to move out. If it were say jan then op should have been clear she needed to read up on what happens if you move section. When applying.

Very odd system it matters where you are 8m earlier

The admissions policily is clear

It doesn't matter how clear it is if it doesn't comply with the law. If this council has a policy that means they will take away a place that has been properly allocated purely because the parents move house, irrespective of whether they do or do not tell them, it is unlawful to take that place away. This is really very clearly set out in the relevant legislation and guidance and has equally been clearly explained by prh47bridge, so I'm mystified why people are still suggesting otherwise.

The request for evidence comes after acceptance of offer

What evidence? If you mean evidence that the child lives where the applicant says they live, that evidence is provided with the application and is checked by the LA before they make the offer. Once the offer has been made and accepted it is binding, provided that it was not made in error and is not the result of fraud. Evidence that the applicant moved after the offer was accepted is totally irrelevant except in relation to the possibility of fraud - which doesn't apply in OP's case because she can show that she had no choice about moving.

OP will have had 2 months notice of her move, and must have had a new address when the offer was made but at no time did she inform the LA.

All of that is speculation - particularly about having a new address. But, again, it doesn't matter: she gave what was genuinely her address at the time of application.

My interpretation of this would be that she purposely failed to inform the LA as she knew she may not get an offer at that school.

If she gave her correct address at the time of application and said to the LA that she might have to move, she would still get the offer. LAs won't work on speculation. To look at it the other way round, if you lived in Yorkshire but knew that you were going to move to Kent, when you apply to schools in Kent you would still come right at the end of the list based on distance criteria no matter how firm your intention is to move. The Kent LA would only move you up that list once you have exchanged contracts on the Kent property or entered into a firm tenancy agreement or have other very, very definite evidence that you are moving into the area.

@Comefromaway

You amended the guidance with your own interpretation!