Junior class size appeal.

[Wellandtrulyoutnumbered]

We moved to this area 18 months ago and an application for a infant class for my daughter was unsuccessful due to all the schools within the designated area being over PAN.

A junior class was offered to her older sibling but due to the logistics I was unable to take up that place as I could not manage both school runs. I was going to appeal as I felt she should be treated as an excepted pupil but neither the nearest school or council would extend the 2-week offer. For my son and I knew that an appeal would take much longer than that. It was clear that when the appeal was subsequently heard it was unlikely there would be a junior space available for my son. Plus I was made aware that the the council could decide to treat it as an accepted people at any of the schools in the designated area including samp which were further away both in time or distance travelled than her current school.

They did offer me a school which was outside the designated area which was factionally closer ( .5 miles) but still the same amount of time travelled. I told them I wasnt interested in this offer as I wasn't going to move my daughter to a new school which still involved a significant amount of time travelled and still put pressure on the family. The school with silly been outside the catchment area for her transition to secondary and the whole purpose for school move was to make her more settled with her peers and the community.

Exceptionally I was granted travel costs for the five mile journey ( each way) in respect of my daughter.

My son has now finished primary and is transitioning to secondary. We have kept in touch with county about places and each time we've acquired there has still been no places within the designated area for her group. r
Recently I discovered that her name was not on the waiting list for the school I heard applied for- they claimed I had not responded to the summer audit and put her name back on the waitlist for this school. Meanwhile other children have been admitted to that year group.

I know this as a close family member also has children within that year at the school and she is also made me aware that in one class they are operating at 29. She doesn't believe there are 31 in the other class. I have tried to push his point with the council and asked them to clarify with the school. The school maintain they are operating at a pan of 60 for that year group. Previously when I first applied 18mths ago the school have also told me verbally they have two children with additional needs who have medical equipment so the head would not be willing to accept an appeal and they would put her on the waiting list. I then found out that it wasn't the head that made a decision about appealing nor did they put her on any waiting list. I don't actually have faith in the information they are passing to county to be honest after that!

This is prompted a new application for a school place in September as I was aware that Junior class size appeals are more likely to be successful.

I put two other nearby schools as well as my first choice and none of them have vacancies either.

County ask me informally in an email if I would consider another school but I know closer in terms of miles the journey time due to traffic would actually be the same if not more than her existing school so I said I wasn't interested in a move there. They replied they would send me a letter and I can appeal the decision and request to go on the waiting lists for two of the three schools ( one doesn't hold a list)

The letter has been emailed and the offer was for her to stay at her existing school and I have appeal rights.

So now I need to formulate an appeal and I want the best chance of getting her into the nearest school to our house.

It's difficult to actually put into words what I would trying to say.

My daughter has traveled outside the designated area because there have been no vacancies within her year group inside the designated area and this situation cannot continue.

The journey is tiring and impacts on the whole family. She does not have the relationships with her peers that I would typically expect a child of her age as she is isolated from her friends due to geography.
She is already anxious about the transition to secondary school as she knows it is unlikely that any of her friends will go to the same secondary school as her and this also so inhibts her forming attachments.

Help please. I need to focus my attention on reasons that is likely to make an appeal succeed. She is so happy and settled at her current school at the journey is just unsustainable especially now I have to work full time. I also have a bit of a ticking time bomb in that when she is in year six her younger sibling would be starting reception. We can't manage two different school runs with such a distance.

am really sorry but am not sure I've properly understood your post - it is very difficult to make sense of.

That said, an appeal which focuses on travel and logistics is usually not likely to succeed. You are appealing for the school you want and therefore should pick up aspects that the appeal school offers that would suit your daughter (for example she is learning Spanish and the appeal school offer Spanish at primary). However, you say that your daughter is happy and enjoys her allocated school - aside from the travel issue - why would you move her? How does she travel to school?

Sorry I've just read it back. Voice typed it whilst wrangling with a toddler. Lots of typos.

The reason I want to move her is the school is 20 minutes each way and I work full time. It's exhausting. We can't really afford the wear and tear on car either. Yes I get a travel allowance but it doesn't really cover it.

I won't put her in a taxi provided by county because 1) it's unchaperoned and no child car seat. Whilst not illegal it's also not safe.

2. I work. The taxi would pick her up after I need to be in work and drop her home whilst I'm at work. They don't care about the fact she's booked in wraparound care. They shove several kids in together and do a circuit.

She likes the school. It's not without its issues though- the class she's been allocated this year has a dog once a week which she perified of. She's not looking forward to going back in September.

The school I want or one of the other two is closer to our house. She would have an opportunity to build relationships with the peers she will eventually transistion to secondary school in.

The schools don't seem to have any amazing differences in the curriculum. Although one does submersive learning.

This is an ordinary prejudice appeal. There isn't actually such a thing as a junior class size appeal, although I can understand why you think it is called that.

To win your appeal you need to show that the disadvantage to your daughter from not attending this school outweighs any problems the school will face from having to cope with an additional pupil.

Your issues with transport won't carry any weight, I'm afraid. Your wish for your daughter to build relationships with peers living locally is also unlikely to carry any weight.

You need to identify things the appeal school offers that are missing from your daughter's current school. That doesn't have to be about the curriculum. It could be extracurricular activities or other things that the school offers. If you can show that there are things that are relevant to her that she is missing out on that will help you to win your appeal.

Thank you. I'm currently looking at the curriculum at new school.

I'm not hopeful tbh.

I just can't really can't cope with another 3 years of travelling to her school. It's so stressful trying to keep car on the road.

I'm really sorry, but prh is doing you a kindness by pointing out the weakness in your arguments so far. Every year, many parents appeal, thinking that their logical arguments about distance, travel time, inconvenience, logistics, double school runs, work vs. school time, etc., will surely win the appeal with a reasonable panel. Sadly, most of these are about the parent, not the child.

Generally, a 45 minute journey is considered 'reasonable' for a primary school child. 20 minutes by car is most definitely going to be considered reasonable. Arguments about car running costs won't be considered because it isn't the LA's responsibility to get your DD to school, barring distance. They have already met their obligation by providing you with fuel costs.

There are many ways of integrating with the local community via clubs, etc., so it's unlikely that any argument about being part of the local community is going to succeed.

Having said that, you only have to show that your child needs the place more than the school needs to keep her (or any extra child out) and because it's a prejudice appeal, that balance only has to be 51% in your favour against 49% in their favour.

Look at past numbers on roll. You'll get a diagram of the school with a net capacity, lower and upper figures and an agreed PAN. Look to make sure that the school hasn't altered since that diagram was made. For example, extra static buildings, a music room that isn't used for that any more, the size of the year (whatever year she'll be in) classrooms. However, also look at the configuration of the classroom - sometimes a room can have a large area, but a much smaller useable area, due to windows or partition walls with doors in them.

An L shaped or triangular room can cause issues with whole class teaching, so they could argue that they need less in a class because of that, but they would still need to admit up to PAN.

If, as you suspect, they have 29 in one class and don't have 31 in the other (with a PAN of 60) and you are refused a place, then your appeal will be based on the fact that there is a place so you have been denied the place contrary to the Admissions Code.

Thank you all.

When you say I'll get a diagram of school and net capacity, lower and upper figures and an agreed PAN is this information that the council will send me once I appeal?

Am I able to request info of when classes have accommodated over PAN.

Can i appeal all three schools ?

Yes, you'll be sent an appeal bundle by the Local Authority. It should be in there and if it isn't, ask for it. The LA must supply you with any information that you reasonably ask for. So recent historical class sizes is fine - the school itself may well give you that information.

You can appeal all three schools. Bear in mind that, in each case, you are appealing for the school you are appealing for, not against the school you are allocated. So you need to tailor your appeal statements to each individual school. It's no good saying "she's too far away and doesn't know anyone local". You need to be able to say "X school has y feature/opportunity/extra-curricular, which is not offered in . This is important for as she is talented in /has special interest in, etc.

I've received a letter today stating appeal won't be heard until after term starts again.

Will I receive a bundle at later date? No info on numbers or diagrams in pack received today.

Yes, unfortunately summer holidays stop the clock. You'll get your bundle, normally, about 2 weeks before the appeal.

Thank you. It's just frustrating because they had the application and knew they had no places anywhere well before term ended. They just didn't send me my "offer" letter til last week.

She'll have to start back at her existing school. I just can't afford to buy her new junior blazer though. I'll look for a second hand one so she doesn't look different.

You've had some great advice already. Are you sure you didn't receive an email asking you to reaffirm her on the waiting list? They should have evidence if they sent this. Can you ask for this evidence? If they did not in fact send that email then perhaps you could argue due process has not been followed, and one of those summer places should have been hers.

I hope you don't mind me bringing this up and perhaps I'm over-analysing, but you come across stressed and panicky, almost overwhelmed. It sounds like your DD is fine, and if she does end up starting a new school without knowing her classmates, that's not an unusual experience at 11. But for your part, a 20min car ride and buying a blazer seem to be overwhelming on top of everything else at the moment. Is there any way you can pull any other levers to reduce the stress and overwhelm a bit? Maybe ask for adjustments at work? Your own wellbeing is really important, it's just that the LEA is not the one responsible for it. Getting DD into a different school is one possible solution but not the only one. What else can change? A day WFH or some early finishes might make all the difference. Do you have a partner or relative who could do more of the runs? Is it that you're staring down the barrel of another 4 years of this and it just seems too much? I hope you don't mind me asking, I do mean it kindly.

ElstreeViaduct. Thank you. You aren't over analysing. I'm really stressed and I'm a bad place mentally at mo. Lots of stressful things happening in our life and tbh getting her into a closer school is just one way of making things better.

I checked emails and definitely no summer audit nor physical letter in post.

Partner does most the nursery runs in opposite direction to her school as it's closer to his work. I'd love WFH but alas we don't even have proper flexible working at my work. I need to look for another job. A part time one tbh

I chased for information on the appeal this week and was told that one was scheduled for early October but they couldn't confirm this at present.

Today we have unexpectedly been given an offer for the school of our choice. The school have been quite off on the phone when I phoned to discuss start dates and transition. I had to ask several times for them to tell me the class that she was going to be in so I could try and prepare her.

Well guess what and no child has left.

I think they couldn't defend the appeal and they have had to give county the correct numbers now. How likely is this? I'd just like to know because really she could have just started at the start of term have they done the right thing but instead she now has her change of school a week or so after starting term. Uniform shopping again!

Sorry that should say

Well guess what ; she's in the class I was told I had 29 pupils in months ago and no child has left.

I'm pleased by the way and so is my daughter I just can't help but think this could have all been resolved so differently and easily! This is going to make a huge difference to our family and hopefully her younger brother will now follow her into that school.

If they weren't full up to PAN they should have admitted from the waiting list. Having said that, waiting list places often don't get dealt with over the summer. But they would definitely have lost if they wnt into the appeal below PAN and without anyone ahead of you on the waiting list.

I'm glad it has worked out for you.

Thank you. Having had several other parents confirm no one left either recently or prior to summer break I'm pretty convinced they were trying to keep numbers below PAN due to particular needs within the class. Now they have been told there is an appeal she finally has a place. I'll put it behind us now but it's been enlightening. Thank you for all your help. It really is appreciated.