DS has regressed completely in Y5 - what else to do?

[christinarossetti19]

Ds has been at the same primary school since nursery. He's summer born and left-handed, so I knew his handwriting etc would take time to develop. He's always finished the year either meeting or exceeding expectations, and got exceeding in Reading, and expected in writing and maths in Y1 SATS.

All fine.

His report at Easter said that he was 'working towards' in everything. I arranged a meeting with the phase leader, who said that he needed help in maths but English fine. I asked for a bit more detail and she looked shocked as she went through the data on the computer. He was way, way behind 'expected' in English and Maths. She said that he can go to booster classes in Y6; I kept trying to bring the conversation to what was happening in the six hours a day that he was at school and what I could do to help, but we didn't really go anywhere. Ds does music four nights a week after school, and I really can't see the benefit of him missing this to spend more time in the classroom, if six hours a day in the classroom isn't working.

Next, I met with his class teacher who said he was 'just behind' where he should be. I fed back that ds said the classroom was noisy, although she disagreed. Ds does sometimes have problems focusing and concentrating - I agree with this, but he's always been like that and never failed at school before.

I said that I would help him at home with maths, which I have been doing. My (non-expert) opinion, is that he immediately thinks that he can't do it, but with encouragement, is able to.

Ds came home with his books from Y5 yesterday and they are shocking. He has hardly done anything, and everything is worse than it was this time last year.

I am shocked at how badly he has been doing, with nothing put in place to help him. Also, I don't understand why this has suddenly happened. I know that children don't progress in a linear fashion, but regression isn't usual, is it?

I'm expecting his report to be very different to the previous 5 that he's had from the school. There is a quick 5 mins parents evening on Thursday. I don't feel that I can just leave this over the summer - he has one more year left at primary and it feels like the school is just leaving him to fail. I don't know why as they're quite keen on their SATS results!

What do I do? Look at other schools? Pay to see an ed psych privately in case he does have ADHD or something? Work with him over the summer and hope for the best?

I'm honestly at a loss - all advice or suggestions appreciated. Thanks.

Gosh, I’m really sorry. I’m not sure I have anything useful to add but wanted to bump for you.

I had a feeling you weren’t too far from me and on one of those nice NW London schools, so I’m surprised it’s come to this.

I’ve got some leads on tutors in my area but it might not be that near you. Shall I pm you?

I'm surprised. My Ds2 has just finished Y5 and has made good progress. They all have. They had an open evening last week and all the children's progress was dramatic.
Ds2 is all prepared for Y6, SATS etc.
I really think you should say something, don't let this go.

That’s not good. It may be that the teacher didn’t have good control of the class and your son has just been coasting along in a world of his own/distracted by the noise etc. So it may improve in year 6 with a different teacher.

Does he have other signs of ADHD (it’s worth googling them)? If so I’d start down the assessment route too but you’ll need school to back you up. We’ve just been through it with our year 8 son and I wish we’d done it sooner as he’s not had a brilliant start to secondary school.

I would definitely be pushing the school more. Perhaps ask to speak with the head or SEN lead.m if you aren't getting anywhere with the teacher. Booster classes may be more helpful than normal school time as there is often fewer children and lower child to teacher ratio. If they are being offered I would take them up.

If you can afford to definitely see an Ed psych. Camhs are rubbish and take far too long. The quicker you can get him help if he needs it the better.

My son had books like you describe at about the same point. Turned out he had Aspergers with ADHD. Not diagnosed until secondary school as primary school kept saying there was nothing wrong and he would "grow out of it".

Weirdly we’ve found CAMHS to be very quick once we actually got round to seeking a diagnosis. We seem to have got lucky but we self-diagnosed him online in around March I think, we’ve since had two appointments with a very good psychiatrist who has said she’ll give him a diagnosis. I was fully prepared for a very long wait!

I don’t mean self-diagnosed I mean self-referred!

Oblomov

"I'm surprised. My Ds2 has just finished Y5 and has made good progress. They all have."

That's lovely for your child and his friends, but not desperately helpful. Really unhelpful to be exact. I have 'said something' on several occasions (see my OP).

Moverofpaper, no not NW London, but ds has always done well at this school as did his sister before him.

MimiMum, I've met with his class teacher and deputy/phase leader. I've also spoke to the SENCO at length when he was being bullied last year - I spoke to her briefly a few weeks ago and she was surprised re his progress.

My two concerns about booster classes are that sitting in a classroom for six hours a day hasn't helped him 'progress', so would another hour a day help? Also, and primarily, he does music four nights a week after school, which he enjoys and is good at. I really don't want him to stop doing that.

Got his report today. Secure in English and science, not met expected level in maths. Which was a relief, but he has still gone from 'exceeding' in maths this time last year to 'not met expected'. Only time he has finished the school year not where he's meant to be or ahead.

I'm torn between thinking it just wasn't a great year, we'll do some work over the summer, the school will pull the stops out for Y6 and I'll keep in closer contact with his teacher and, actually if there is something that needs to be addressed, sooner rather than later.

the final end of year result shouldn't ever come as a shock. make sure next year you are very clear where he is at before christmas, then easter break so you are informed and not surprised by the end of the year.
i guess by this age i'd ask him, maybe he was daydreaming, goofing around with the other kids or potentially at a point where some SEN are beginning to manifest themselves.
i would pick up some year 5 work books for math, do some daily, reading daily and writing finger strengthening things daily as well.
i'm not sure what y5 science material is covered but go over this in general discussions and see if any day activities could reinforce what he didn't appear to master.
it may all boil down to a hate of writing though. but you will figure it out quick enough i'm sure.

Knitchatter it didn't come as a shock. As I said in my OP, I found out at Easter than he wasn't meeting expectations and went to speak to the deputy and class teacher.

Yes, as I said, I will do some work over the summer with him, particularly in maths.

He doesn't hate writing - his writing was late to develop as he's a summer born, left handed boy, but I never said that he hated it.

I can't figure it out, let alone 'quick enough'. That's why I posted!

Sorry if I'm being snipey. I'm quite stressed in general at the moment and have been worried about this for some months, but haven't got anywhere with the school

Do you know if the school does most of the curriculum teaching in year 5 and then consolidates in year 6? I wonder if it has all been too much this year and has moved too fast too suddenly which has knocked his confidence and is not actually he can't do it but like you say he can do it if he has encouragement. If school are being utterly useless then I would set yourself some sort of schedule for the holidays to do a little bit every day. Get hold of a year 5 workbook and go through it together. Don't sit him down and get him to do it then mark it but actually just sit and go through it. You will find some bits he can do easily and then you will find the stumbling blocks which you can then go through with him. If he can start year 6 more confident in his abilities it will make a huge difference.

Thanks nonickname, I've been going through some Y5 stuff with him since Easter.

I haven't even tried just asking him to do it himself, and then mark it, as he would refuse to do it, but have sat next to him asking me to talk through how he is working something out.

In my non-expert opinion, it looks like he's not really engaging his brain a lot of the time. Whether this is due to some sort of manifesting SEND or anxiety/panic about not being able to do it (or a bit of both), I don't know.

School seem to think that it's generally a lack of focus and concentration. Again, whether this is due to an manifesting SEND, anxiety or just his personality, I don't know.

I guess that's my question - would the route to finding out be via an educational psychologist? I know that we would have to pay for this privately, as resources are so thin on the ground.

You've been told a lot of contradictory things by the teaching staff and I'd be pretty frustrated too.

What is your DS's relationship with his class teacher like? Do you get the feeling that they didn't gel?

This happened to my DD from Reception all exceeding and meeting to end of Y2 below standard in Maths (working a year behind) and scraping the rest.

We engaged a private EP at the start of the school year. DD is also a left handed summer born and they diagnosed her as hyper vigilant and a highly sensitive child. This meant she was constantly distracted and not getting on with what she should be and when she did because she had lost confidence, she would then be behind everyone else and then struggling to catch up and just giving up halfway through. A few small changes to seating position in class and "checking in" on her by a TA at the start of each task so she can get started has meant she has caught up and is doing well in everything (exceeding in Reading & SPAG).

In Y2 they did SATS extra classes for a small number of children. She liked it because they got milk and biscuits but it made no difference to her learning I'm pretty sure.

An Ed psych would certainly tell you of any difficulties tour DS has with learning. And yes at this stage in his primary education I would 100% say go private otherwise you will have to wait a while.
It might also be worth getting a tutor to reiterate the year 5 learning and plug any gaps.
Sorry if I missed this, but what does DS say about his year? Has he found it hard or has he checked out a bit?

Could he need glasses? If he can't focus work might hurt his head which would make him reluctant.
And maybe talk to the SEN teacher about coloured overalays. I know people can be dubious about them, but I know I get a slight rainbow round black letters on a white background which is helped by a pink overlay, so may be worth considering

I'm a teacher and have taught year 5 several times. I think you are right to be concerned and it's a shame his books weren't shared with you earlier on. I share books at parents' evenings and have always been able to see my DCs books at parents' evenings. It's not ok for a year 5 child to produce little to no work. Either he has deliberately disengaged or he has not understood, both of which are reasons for a teacher to intervene early and either spend more time supporting him or laying down the expectations for the amount of work produced. Phase leader should also have been checking in on him after your meeting.

Moving forward, I would say it's important for you to arrange to meet the year 6 teacher early in September. Take along the books - do you still have examples of the previous years ones to show what he used to do? It may be that a new teacher/environment makes a difference, but if not push for the SENCO to do an assessment.

FWIW booster classes in many schools take place during the afternoons of the school day so wouldn't be additional time in school, unless your school operates them differently?

Thanks, that's more practical advice.

Dippy The booster classes are after school when he does music four nights a week, and I really don't want him to stop that. It's something he enjoys and is very good at.

Eye sight and hearing checked - no problems there.

Bacawill yes, I've had a number of conversations with teachers through KS2 that it isn't as simple as ds just 'focusing more' - there does need to be some thought given to where he sits etc. He is easily distracted, and working out the reason(s) for this are the key, I think. It may be just his personality - he's a definite think outside the box character.

They've had a bit of a ropey year with teacher changes, which I don't think has helped, and no TA so not much scope for closer support. He doesn't say much about school, but definitely seems to have checked out a bit.

I think that I will look into an ed psych assessment privately. If there is a SEND, it need to be addressed now and not just take a fingers crossed approach through Y6.

Thanks for the helpful comments.

DD now actually sits on a small table on her own with her back against the wall and able to see the board, teacher and doors from where she is without having anyone behind her.

As a leftie she found she was constantly knocking people as she has to spread out and turn her page as she finds it easier so having her own space has been brilliant. The table then gets pushed together with others when they do group or topic work so she's not isolated. She also has a round cushion with spikes on that gives her sensory input and helps dull the fidgety feelings and in turn aids her concentration and a pencil grip to help with her hand getting tired quickly.

All very inexpensive, unobtrusive and easy things that were suggested by EP and implemented by her lovely teacher that have meant her confidence has returned and that's what's enabled her to learn so well I'm convinced of it.

I hope you manage to get to the bottom of it as all any parent wants is their child to reach their own potential and be happy. Personally, if he does music and loves it, I would not be stopping that to attend booster sessions. I know my DD would see that as a punishment and probably not be in the mindset to learn a thing.

Thanks Bacawill.

I think part of the problem is that ds's focusing and concentration problems (which aren't all the time) were less obvious when he was younger. He has said that he would like to sit by himself a few times during KS2 and there are two children in his class room who have similar provision to your dd for similar reasons.

He has always done well academically and doesn't persistently distract others etc.

I will arrange an ed psych assessment, and go from there in September.

The school has very much been 'oh he can attend booster classes in Y6', since Easter which I didn't think was very satisfactory hence me doing some work with him at home.

Christinarossetti19 as I mentioned earlier - we didn't need to go private - we just self-referred ds to the local CAMHS team and we had an appointment within a couple of months and diagnosis within 6 months.

We saw a psychiatrist, who will be able to prescribe ADHD medication - so I think this is a better route than an educational psychologist. It may be different in your area, but worth looking into how it works round you as we had to work it out ourselves.

Suggesting booster classes next year at Easter is a bit rubbish. That’s an entire term of intervention he’s missed out on. I’m not surprised you’re frustrated.

I agree with Dippy about meeting the new teacher early next year. And I think you do need to get across that you think he’s regressed rather than just not made enough progress.

As well as sight test consider a hearing test too.

My son started failing in primary (and now has a Spld diagnosis). My advice would be as follows:

Make an appointment with the SENCO and new year 6 teacher as soon as you can
Understand what their plan is to:

1. ascertain if there is any underlying issue
2. what you can do to support
3. what is their plan for YR6 for your child including location in classroom

Separately I would consider an Ed Psych report. This is expensive but will inform you and enable you to make decisions, give structure to any help needed

Thanks. I have spoken with the SENCO about ds a few times. She is lovely and knows him well and said that there's nothing that she's observed/heard about him that would trigger any SEND concerns. She's taught in his class before, so has a good sense of him.

Rafals yes that's exactly my frustration. I couldn't get an answer to my question at Easter about what will be put in place to ensure that he 'catches up' in the summer term, but it was all about the 'boosters' in Y6.

Yes, I'm going to pursue an Ed psych report. I'm in London (not NW) and CAMHS are absolutely inundated. I know a few people with children with much more serious concerns who haven't been able to access even an appointment with statutory services, so we'll have to go privately.

Thanks all. I know that there are 29 other children in the class, but I do need to be more in touch with his class teacher next year.

I am really sorry OP.
I didn't mean for my post to come across as unhelpful.

Believe you me I am not a judgemental person at all. I have had a nightmare, with Ds1, an ASD diagnosis disputed by school and then their allegation that I had munchausens!!

Later, it just so happens, that Ds2 is the easiest kid ever, so I've had an easy ride with him.

My post wasn't supposed to be critical. I'm sorry if it appeared that way.

I was only saying that you know a child should make good progress in year 5 because and mine has.

and I don't doubt that you have questioned things and schools are very very good, very clever at avoiding such questions and not getting back to you and not engaging with you.

so I know this. so all I'm saying is .... all I was trying to say in my previous post which clearly got your goat up - I'm sorry I didn't mean it to - was that you're going to have to be a bit more savvy in dealing with them : writing things down, sending emails, having a paper trail and pushing, hard.

Your'll have to become, like a lot of us ASD mums or ADHD mums, learn the hard way, how to play the game!!