Primary applications clarification.

[Sammy867]

Hello,
I was speaking to my daughter’s childminder today and she was telling me that 10 children did not get into the local school (catchment based on our village only) this year. Over the last few years a new housing development has been built just on the outskirts of the village, which has dramatically increased the population in the village (180 houses) and I believe we are now starting to see the effects filter into the school applications.
My daughter will be in nursery another year but we will be applying for her position for reception when applications open this year.

There are 4 girls with this childminder that are all the same age, have been together since 6 months old and currently attend the same nursery. Should one or two of the four not get a position in our village primary, they would not be able to stay with this childminder and obviously potentially lose this amazing friendship group they have developed.

There are 3 outstanding schools and 1 good in the near area. (This means within a 30 minute walk). The one that services our catchment is in the top 50 schools in the country. This would be our first choice.

The school I would chose as second would be the next closest which is also outstanding but not our catchment (the schools are around 50m apart but service different villages due to layout)

The last choice would be the good school. This school only fills around 15 of its 30 spaces. Mostly this is due to the area it covers; a very expensive area to live with an older population in the catchment area. Those living here usually send their children to the local private school so there aren’t many applications, although the school is generally regarded as being a good school. I believe should we fail to get the first two, the third is a certain position and a 5 minute drive from my house.

The childminder, however, has been telling all the mums to only put the first choice down as we would be less likely to be offered a position if we put other choices; however I was under the assumption that my method was correct. I believe we need to fill the slots with two we would be ecstatic with, (the first being our catchment and the second being an outstanding school but less likely to get a position) and then one we would be less happy with but certain to get in.

The childminder believes that by putting the third choice, which is an undersubscribed school that they would push my daughter in that direction to free space at the oversubscribed school for the children who didn’t put a second and third choice.

I know we are a few months away but since I was talking about it today I would just appreciate clarification so I can let the other mums know. I would also add that none of the schools are faith schools, none of the 4 friends have siblings and we all live within a few minutes walk of each other , so I believe they will all be considered under the same criteria.

Many thanks

You are right and the childminder is wrong. If someone puts down only one school and there is no space, they will get the nearest school with spaces - which could be miles away.

You are right, childminder is wrong. You should check the council website to see where the cut off was last year just so that you know what to expect.

Op please look around these schools and check their sat results - outstanding schools may not have been checked for years. I’ve just moved my dd from an ‘outstanding’ school (ks2 results at 60%) to a ‘good’ school (results at 97%).

Child minder needs to stop giving out nonsense advice.
If you only put your first choice and there is no place, you will end up with an undersubscribed school because they match choices first.

Putting more choices doesn't lessen your chances of getting your preferred school. Each is looked at in order.
Putting less choices does however increase the likelihood of ending up at a school simply allocated to you that you would probably not have selected.

Childminder is definitely wrong I learnt the hard way

All only putting one choice down achieves is that if you don’t get into that choice you get no say in where you are sent!

definitely put all three choices down. childminder is talking utter rubbish

What the others said. Childminder is talking nonsense. Always use all your preferences.

I wouldn't even check sats results, they mean absolutely naff all (and I'm a teacher!). Go and see the schools, get a feel for them! Then make a decision!

Childminder is 100% wrong. That's not how allocations work. Your plan is sound. Best of luck with the applications

I have a friend who believes this too. I've explained repeatedly but she still says it to anybody who will listen every single year. She only put one school you see and her dd got in. She lives next to the school ffs. Last year a mutual friend took her advice (despite my very best efforts) and got a school miles away. She was distraught.

Tell the other parents AND the childminder that it doesn't work like that.

She’s wrong, but unfortunately every year somebody who only put 1 choice will get that school (which would have happened anyway) and then everyone will think she’s right and someone will end up with a school they really didn’t want as a result

Thanks everyone.

I have seen all three schools for various reasons and all three would be fine. The first is our village school and had 100% pass rate for sats. the older children at the childminders go there and they are all happy and polite kids who only speak well of the school. It has a really nice atmosphere and other mum friends I know are happy with the school from a parents perspective. It is set in a very large forest area with lots of outdoor activities.

The second choice is attached to the nursery my daughter is currently in so we already know the school quite well (our first choice school doesn’t have a nursery). It’s also a lovely school and only round the corner from the first. The nursery is a forest nursery and the equipment is amazing.

The third is in the forest at the other end of our house and although sats results are lower. It has a nice feel and smaller class sizes which haven’t yet filtered through to sats so I imagine the child: teacher ratio will help improve their scores over time. A boy my daughter is friends with goes to this school and he’s doing very well and enjoys going.

Obviously we want our first choice but I’d rather she has a place in any of the three than none.

The childminder is completely wrong

All schools and local authorities must abide by the Admissions Code, which has the force of law.

They must operate an 'equal preference' system, so that parents can put down their preferences in their genuine order knowing they will be treated equally.

So every for every school there is a list of everyone who has expressed a preference, but not which preference (simply that it is on their form somewhere). Each school (or the LA acting for it) then ranks the list according to the published criteria and those criteria only. It would break the admissions code to select by ranking of preference.

Those lists are returned to the LA, who then play something like a giant game of Candy Crush to turn each of the lists into a single offer for a candidate. So the preferences only come in to it if you qualify for more than one school, when out will be allocated the one you listed highest on your form.

If you do not qualify for any, you get the nearest school with a vacancy.

It's an entirely rules driven and largely computerised process. There isn't a person in the LA screening applications and saying 'they've only listed one so they must have it' or 'they've also listed another, so they're clearly not fussy so we'll give them their lowest ranked'.

Stick with your plan, OP, and do what you can to make sure no-one falls for your CM's alarming twaddle

100% pass rate for SATS (ie combined scores at expected level)? That is exceptional - so exceptional as to be quite unlikely I'd have thought. The national rate last year was 64%, this year 65%. Even the leafiest primary schools I can find for last year with parents who tutor obsessively only got 88%.

As everyone else has said, you're right and childminder is wrong. But are you certain that childminder will still work next year, will you all be paying for all day spaces to keep them?

Hi
Yes the local primary was definitely 100% pass rate across the board. The year before it was 97 and is ranked quite high in the country for results for everything. It’s catchment is very small (just our village). The second choice primary was in the high 90’s and the third choice was low 90’s- still above average but lower than the other two.

The childminder only minds for the first choice primary as she has a lot that go there to pick up and is excellent in all other respects. She has been there since 6 months with no problems whatsoever. We only pay the hours she is there, if she is ill we don’t pay, if either has holidays etc we don’t pay either. we pay £4.50 per hour.

All those results suggest that you are in an affluent middle class area, with the children coming from educated families who heavily support education. So the high results are representative of the intake and I suspect may not be so much to do with the school. Are you also in an area where everyone tutors to get their DC into grammar/private school at secondary school by any chance?

That's incidental anyway - you're quite right that you should fill up all your choices. Though the school will small classes might actually not improve as it's likely struggling with funding (though if there are now more children in your area maybe they will start to fill the spaces).

Hi
Yes we are in a middle class area in our village but probably a bit of an anomaly in the sense that most of the surrounding villages are working class.

We are in the North and we don’t have grammars here, only comprehensives and the villages are ex pit villages. The two local comprehensives are both excellent as well with one getting 100% on the GCSEs and near enough on a-levels and the second not far behind. The first is usually in the news for results.

I attended the first comprehensive as a child (and sixth form) and I can definitely say that all the children have a strong work ethic and not always down to the parents. The catchment area is mixed. The schools here seem to culture a very strong work ethic in their children from a young age, historically most have gone to university and I think it sets a good example to subsequent years.

There’s is only one private school in the area and that is in the next city (around 45 minutes away by car) some of the locals do send their kids there but usually most find it unnecessary with the standard of the local schools being so high. We are very lucky to live here.