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school appeals

22 replies

eddiemairswife · 10/07/2019 22:18

I have spent the day hearing appeals based on infant class size. So many parents say how inconsolable their children are at not getting their first preference school leading to bedwetting, crying, losing friends from nursery. I feel that a lot of it is due to the parents' disappointment with not getting their preferred school due to transport arrangements, child care and work times. Surely, if you have children, some sacrifices have to be made to accommodate their needs.

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Needmorecoffeeortea · 10/07/2019 22:43

Have these appeals been successful?

Charmatt · 11/07/2019 10:07

I doubt they would if the application process has been completed successfully.

The threshold for a decision to be unreasonable is very high, with 'reasonable' referring to the legal definition of it.

NoBaggyPants · 11/07/2019 10:11

I sit on an appeals panel and have never allowed an ICS one. Parents either don't understand or don't even read the information they are sent, so whilst I'm very sympathetic they simply don't fulfil the strict criteria for an ICS appeal.

And wheeling in a crying child (plus siblings!) is not going to change my mind!

NoBaggyPants · 11/07/2019 10:12

That's not to say that ICS appeals are never successful, but it is rare.

eddiemairswife · 11/07/2019 10:56

None of the appeals I heard yesterday were successful.

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Lougle · 11/07/2019 11:15

Having sat on appeals panels, I think the term 'unreasonable' is very unfortunate. Most people don't access forums like Mumsnet, where the criteria are discussed in detail. The threshold is so high for the test of 'Wedensbury unreasonableness'. Two children at schools 20 minutes away from each other and no transport? Nope, not unreasonable because it's not for the LA to get them there (under 2 miles for KS1). Not allocated the school that you've been attending for 2-3 years at nursery? Tough.

The amount of parents that turn up with blind faith that the panel will see their argument, when the panel has their arms tied behind their back is very sad. At the LA I was a panelist for, I was told that many panelists were refusing to sit for ICS cases because it was just too hard to hear quite awful circumstances and still have to say no.

Lougle · 11/07/2019 11:17

Oh yes, Nobaggypants, nor a gorgeous photo of the child, or a picture they drew to show how much they want the denied school. Especially not a list of all the ways they'd be an asset to the school and how much mummy and daddy are willing to help the school. Hmm

prh47bridge · 11/07/2019 11:40

I have a lot of sympathy for appeal panellists who have to sit through infant class size appeals knowing that the rules mean they can't award a place no matter how clear it is that the child really needs to go to this school. I can understand why I come across the occasional case where the panel appears to have bent the rules (as in broken them!) to admit a child. But, in general, unless you have evidence that a mistake was made or that the admission authority have acted irrationally, you won't win an ICS case. Unless, as happened to me, the admission authority is trying to argue that it is an ICS case when, on the facts, it isn't!

BreconBeBuggered · 11/07/2019 11:44

It can be quite upsetting. We often feel we'd love to admit the children, and feel very sorry for the parents, but we don't have that choice. Most parents grasp quite quickly that they have zero chance of success, and then it's even more frustrating come September when there are frequently a couple of no-shows who haven't relinquished their place. By then pretty much everyone has resigned themselves to the school they were originally offered.

KnitterOfSocks · 11/07/2019 11:55

My friend won an ICS appeal with twins as the LA had made an error with the distances and she lived closer than the last child offered a space. That's the only one I've ever heard of.

Needmorecoffeeortea · 11/07/2019 20:20

I am a reception teacher and I’m glad that it’s rare to win ICS appeals. It’s not good for the original 30 to be taught in a larger class. 30 is too big really for infants anyway! So I understand that it’s tough to hear sad tales on the appeal panel but the legislation is there to protect the other children from being classes that are too large. Thank you for the job you do on appeal panels.

Pud2 · 11/07/2019 20:24

Why are these young children distraught? Surely it’s a parent’s job to carry the responsibility and disappointment and not transfer it to their child? Children should be shielded and not overly involved.

admission · 11/07/2019 20:45

The first thing that I put in my bag when doing admissions is the man-sized tissue pack because it gets well used. I fully understand that it is not easy to go to a panel to explain the parents reasons for wanting a place at the school but in my opinion it is becoming more and more common for there to be histrionics from the parents. Sorry but it does not work on me, I am just professional and hand them the tissues and wait for the tears to finish.

spanieleyes · 11/07/2019 21:32

I won an ICS appeal because it actually wasn't! The school claimed that , at 29, the class was full as one child had an EHCP and therefore an additional adult! The appeal panel had to explain that the I in ICS meant infant!

PerspicaciaTick · 11/07/2019 22:30

Why don't parents protect their children from the process. If you've whipped your child into a state of bed-wetting hysteria about staring school, then you have only yourselves to blame.

PatriciaHolm · 11/07/2019 22:52

Pretty sure I've seen a stat from my LEA that ICS success last year was 0.5%.

As a panellist I've only allowed one, which was on paper no case but in person the story was very different and traumatic.

And no, no infant aged child should be distraught at not getting the school mummy and daddy want, of course. A lot of it is parental projection (and in other appeals of course too).

I remain continually frustrated about the lack of understanding about the schools admissions process, which is probably a combination of confusing forms from admissions authorities and an lack of engagement on behalf of some parents to actually read admissions criteria and not just believe what their mates/childminders/relatives who did it 20 years ago tell them. No, putting only one school on the form won't get you it. No, saying you only want a mixed sex/single sex school doesn't mean you have to be given one. no, the fact that school is next to your work/the bus/grandma doesn't make a difference....

prh47bridge · 11/07/2019 23:53

The thing I find surprising is that, according to the national statistics, around 12% of ICS appeals are successful. Whilst this is a lot lower than for non-ICS primary school appeals (36%), it suggests a lot of mistakes or unreasonable decisions by admission authorities (or a lot of panels bending the rules). In raw numbers, for 2017/18 (the most recent year for which figures are available) there were 1,449 successful ICS appeals.

The figures vary hugely from LA to LA. In two LAs over 40% of ICS appeals were successful.

Needmorecoffeeortea · 12/07/2019 20:18

My school has had successful ICS in the past where there has been capacity in the Y1 class or Y2 class so the appeal panel have forced us to have mixed year group classes. This is not as bad as an ICS appeal forcing a reception class over 30, IMO.

Pud2 · 12/07/2019 20:32

It is very frustrating for the school too. I had to spend a lot of time preparing documentation for an appeal recently and then take a morning out of school to attend even though the parents didn’t have a hope in hell of winning. They didn’t even bother to turn up. It also costs the school money which they can ill-afford.

Lougle · 12/07/2019 20:48

"My school has had successful ICS in the past where there has been capacity in the Y1 class or Y2 class so the appeal panel have forced us to have mixed year group classes."

Appeals panels can't direct the school to arrange their classes differently! I'm surprised the LA didn't take that further.

Needmorecoffeeortea · 12/07/2019 21:08

They didn’t direct us to change the classes but we would rather that than the 31 or 32 they were forcing us to admit into reception class!

Lougle · 12/07/2019 21:48

Ah I see, that explains it.

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