Nervous about sets for Yr2

[Rhayader]

DD is just finishing year 1 and I’ve heard from parents with older siblings that the school sets children from the beginning of year 2 for maths, English and science. We will find out their class and set teachers in the end of year reports, although I doubt we will be told the set. They stay in their form class for everything else.

AIBU to be nervous about this? It’s a big school (4 form intake) so there are 4 ability sets. DD has made an enormous amount of progress this year, particularly since Easter: she has moved up 4 ORT book bands since Easter which has had a knock on impact on every other subject. I’m a bit worried that some of her assessments might be out of date and not reflect her current ability levels. She is a summer baby and I worry about her being placed in a box and never leaving. This feels very young to be set in such a rigid way, they are currently placed on tables for each subject which seem to change every 6 weeks.

Wow, I'm really surprised that a school would set from year 2. It sounds unusual to me, but hopefully people will come along to put your mind at rest. Our school doesn't even seem to put child together on tables based on ability.

I was surprised too when I heard - it’s not anywhere on the school website/prospectus although if you look carefully you can see that the spellings for the 4 English teachers for year 2 are very different!

I think most schools will do some sort of setting after KS1 SATs.

Please try not to be nervous. In my experience there is a lot of movement between sets at that age as children learn and develop at such different rates. When they come back after the holidays there may be movement quite quickly.

Given that school know your DD there is no reason to believe that they will use out of date assessments. I would always hope (and expect) that your DD goes in to the right set for her - try to see it as a starting point rather than a box.

If you still have concerns you can always go and speak to a teacher but maybe wait until September when you have a better idea of how your DD is getting on in her new classes.

My DD is in year 3 and there's no sign of setting. I think year 5/6 maths used to be settled at her school but it was to the detriment of those in the middle/lower set, so they stopped doing it. Given the mastery approach, it seems possible to not set as there is no need to go faster, just deeper for some.

My DD is particularly strong in Maths. She often helps other children when she has finished the initial work set. I think that's a brilliant way for her to test and deepen her understanding of the maths topic they are doing. She had to use mathematical vocabulary, use reasoning to work out how the other pupil has understood/misunderstood and explain her reasoning in a logical, stepwise manner. For a capable child who often rushes through maths, it is hugely beneficial. Setting would both take this from her and from the child she is helping.

Research suggests there is actually not a lot of movement between ability sets.

Students tend to grow to be more like the group they have been put in.

The top group gets more stimulation from challenging work and the buzz of extension work and of able children asking challenging questions.

Meanwhile the bottom group works at a slow pace consolidating the basics ad nauseum. There will be a lot of not especially educational filler activities,colouring in etc.

This group will have the frequent absentees and pupils with behaviour issues. It will have a lot of boys and summer born children.

It may have the least qualified teacher or even a TA as its leader.

Low teacher expectation combined with all the negative baggage that comes from knowing they are the lowest ability group results in disenchanted children aware of a 'system' within which they are not that successful.

At the opposite end, success breeds success for those at the top and the gap between the most able and least able just gets wider.

Setting at such a young age is wrong.

Wtf about the colouring !?
Anyway setting for reading but doing different spelling wouldnt really work as they are different skills. A kid may be able to spell but not read well etc.
Being in a lower group can help with confidence as seeing someone reel off the answers isnt great.
Movement in sets would depend on if they have managed to cover all the tooic in the lower groups.

DDs school has been setted for English and maths since the start of year 1. I assume this will continue in year two, although only with two sets instead of three as the number of classes are dropping.
She is in top set for everything so I have to admit I hadn’t really given it much thought. I can see how it might be to the detriment of lower set kids.

All the sets will have to cover the topics for their year group, just maybe at a slightly different pace with different levels of extension work.

I wouldn’t get too hung up on sets, especially if your dd ends up in a lower one, if you have a negative view on it, then your dd will too, which will give her confidence far more of a knock than actually being in the set itself.

I would be worried too. There is not a lot of movement once a child has been set.

I wish schools would implement based on the research regarding setting being detrimental for 90% and no impact for the other 10%.

My ds is now at the end of year 4 and is not in sets. Year 2 is very early for that.

My dc's school has set(more like streamed) in yr2. They ditched it because it was not just effective, in yr3.
There should be a lot of movements from end of yr1 till end of yr2, since a lot of children click and start showing their abilities.
You need to keep an eye whatever group she has been placed in any case. If she is in the lower set, need to make sure she moves up if she has no challenge, and even i she is in the top set, still need to make sure she is challenged enough.

Thanks it does look like this is quite unusual. DH and I both do STEM jobs and I started doing extension work with her when I realised she was bored in maths at school. She has actually now finished all the year 2 material on an app we have (doodlemaths) and to stop her going too far ahead she has also repeated it in two workbooks. I’ve ordered a year 3 book as she finished the second year 2 book yesterday. So, in the worst case scenario she will get some additional challenge from us if she needs it.

When she started school we hadn’t really done much schoolwork with her and she was quite far behind the kids who went to the school nursery, who were all reading and writing already (she went to a private nursery with longer hours to fit around work). Thinking about it now, all of the children on the top table went to the school nursery! DD sits on the second table for maths, she moved up from the third table a month ago (there are 5 tables). I’m just not sure how they can keep on top of the rapidly changing ability of 30 kids!

Unless your school is very unusual what they normally do is just give some children a bit of extension work band they won’t even really know they are in “sets”. By Y4 they might shuffle them around within class to be worth children of a similar ability for some subjects but again it’s pretty low key.
I wouldn’t worry about it

Every school I’ve taught in has set for some things-we set for phonics. We set for maths from Y2, though not English or science-those can be easily differentiated within the classroom. We set now for phonics from reception from Easter!

It’s fine and there is a lot of movement between sets.

When I first started teaching we streamed-now that was dreadful!

Hoppinggreen

They have different teachers for the different sets so the kids definitely will know!

Year 2 is very early to start setting. There is very little evidence that setting actually works, but lots to show that it doesn't. The children who will benefit are those in the top set, but it is likely to be to the detriment of those in the middle and lower sets (who are actually likely to make less progress than if they were in a mixed-ability class). If your school is setting, I could ask how frequently the children will be put in those sets (it may, for example, only be one day a week in order to recap work etc) and how often the sets will be reviewed. Many schools have moved away from setting now. There is a large and widely-researched evidence base to argue against setting!

Rhayader wow, that is unusual then. I wouldn’t have been happy about this for either DD (top set material) or DS (about average).
Unfortunately I don’t think there’s much you can do though

I thought setting in primary school was no longer a "thing" but clearly not.
My concern would be how much overlap there is between sets (e.g. are the children at the bottom of set 2 pretty much the same ability as those at the top of set 3), and how frequently children move between sets. If it's less than about every half term, this seems very poor.

Try not to worry. What makes you think she’ll be placed in sets in September based upon data from before Easter?

Anyway, these things are never fixed in stone. My DD’s school (also four classes per year) stream for Maths only. I commented one parents evening that I thought her current set was lower than her capability, but made sure to point out I wasn’t criticising the choice or demanding she be moved up. I said I felt she was underperforming due to lack of confidence. The teacher agreed and she was moved the following term.

Tbh i would be happy with set 2 of 4 with 4 form entry.
What you are describing - that the advantage gained in nursery has carried through to end of yr 1 is quite sad. For bright kids and the youngest who may have gone to the nursery but were too young to learn it.
It's clear early learning can help but i feel starting school should be a level playing field.
As these kids are treated as brighter when they arent and it's not good for any of them.

Haworthia

Without wanting to be too outing - her class got a new teacher at Easter and I’m worried they might have asked the previous teacher to give their assessment.

DD does struggle with confidence and it’s something that we have been helping her with all year - she has taken up confidence building hobbies - but I obviously don’t know what she is like in class.

On the whole, the school performs very well in their SATs - it’s the best in our area but much of that will probably be down to the catchment. Around 85% meet expected standards in reading, writing and maths and about 25% exceed.

Gosh it sounds like our school is quite unusual then. It's a three form Intake and they are set for phonics so go into a different classroom with a different teacher and sit on ability based tables for maths.
This is in reception.

Unless if your child is way ahead, beyond ks2 ability, I really wouldn't worry.

DD has been in ability groups throughout Y1 for maths, writing and reading. School haven’t told us this and the kids don’t know. It became apparent when her maths and writing group were given extra work, and her spelling group had harder words than the other groups. This only came to light when parents periodically lost their weekly spelling lists and asked on the class WhatsApp group if anyone could share the list and we realised there was more than one list, or maths work task.

Some of the children have moved between the groups, it’s quite fluid