How do you know if your child is bright enough to pass the 11+

[ByeByeBike]

DD is in year 4. (Going into year 5 in September.) Her teachers have recommended to several parents that if they want their dc to get into grammar school then they will need tutoring stating in the September of year 5.

I think DD is bright and should probably be capable of passing - the school no longer do grades but 'assessment without levels' and she's always hit with her 'at the high end of what is expected a t this time in year x' or 'above the level of what is expected'

But, I didn't go to school in the UK and the whole grammar system just confused me!!! So parents of mumsnet - how did you know your dc was capable of passing the 11+?

I asked my DD's teacher. They usually know. I was told my DD was certainly bright enough with tutoring. I decided not to do it because DD was a very anxious child and wouldn't cope with the pressure.

But for an ordinary, robust child, a good tutor is a good idea. Ask the other parents if they can recommend one or the teacher may know.

It depends on the area you are in and how competitive the school you are aiming for is whether it's a matter of passing. Passing the exam itself is pretty straight forward and actually schools ofte encourage kids to sit it as it's good for their stats to say x passed 11 plus.

I would have an understanding of your local grammar intakes before going down that route. How many applicants do they get to places etc. If it's wildly oversubscribed then the top are picked and passing won't get a place.

For example one girls grammar near us is so over subscribed that only the top 10 percent of passes get in, last year it was the top 6 percent. So lots of disappointed parents who tutored their girls to get a place.

Also don't forget the exam is the first stage the level has to be maintained. If your child is marginal it's ongoing pressure

"Her teachers have recommended to several parents that if they want their dc to get into grammar school then they will need tutoring stating in the September of year 5."

Students bright enough to pass the 11+ need no tutoring, surely that's the point?

i'm sure 90% of children if tutored could pass any exam.
but what you might know about your child is if she is motivated, if she is easy to teach, if she is capable of sitting for a longer stretch of time daily weekly etc.
a happy content child who spends every moment out of school wiggling about in the nearby field, bicycling or playing ball dreaming might not be a ideal candidate for increased rot learning at 10.

User well in an ideal world perhaps. I've only met one child who went to Grammar who wasn't tutored. She was exceptional. The others all had intense tutoring.

The tutor we used did an assessment first. That gives an idea. The main tutoring centre near us does that as well.

Doesn't necessarily work out though! My dd scored very highly in her assessment. But she just found it a very stressful experience and we scaled back and she failed second stage maths.

@User8590

By us the 11+ covers topics they don't learn at school until y6 but the test is 2 weeks into y6.

There is no choice but to do tutoring (or tutor yourself) as they won't have covered the topics in school.

@User8590

By us the 11+ covers topics they don't learn at school until y6 but the test is 2 weeks into y6.

There is no choice but to do tutoring (or tutor yourself) as they won't have covered the topics in school.

You do need to check how your LA assesses 11+ though. In our nearest borough they do it on maths, verbal and non verbal papers. No written paper.

Tutoring is based on techniques for answering multiple choice questions quickly and effectively. Even the brightest child would quake if they met a non verbal reasoning paper for the first time on 11+ testing morning.

I have invigilated at test centres and have seen the panic in the eyes of those who just showed up on the day when they see a NV paper. I also remember the ones who didn't manage to fill out the personal information bit, name , surname, date of birth correctly - what were their parents thinking of ffs ! Have also seen the opposite side, the over tutored who are champing at the bit, furious that they are expected to do a test paper, and full of eye rolls when the test procedures are explained to the group. They often, bless their hearts, turn up on a Saturday morning in full school uniform, not sure if that is supposed to impress, or to put them into fighting mode!

What toomanycats said applies here too. Try the 11+ forum. It is all very cloak & dagger re the tuition- people may say they don’t but they do, all the decent tutors round have sorted out their pupils for next year. They should do an assessment first to see if it is worth it. How to tell - ask the teachers! At my dcs school they aren’t allowed to support the 11+ children and certainly haven’t congratulated those who passed - it’s almost like we’ve done something terrible! Weird as it is the official system where we live, makes no sense to me! To pass they need to be clever, well prepared, quick (v important) and calm in test conditions in a big hall in a strange place!

She'll be taking the Kent test 11+.

The la do verbal, non verbal and maths papers - there is also a written paper but this isn't really looked at unless you need to go through an appeal.

I've just drowned myself by going through last posts on an 11+ forum I've found, and had a go at some past papers - I see how a child would need to be tutored to even understand the question and figure out how to tackle answering it.

user no it’s definitely not the point. The tests cover things not on the curriculum. They also need to read a lot and have excellent vocabulary so lots of children have to improve that as well.

Pm me if you want bye and I can give you links to some good, free resources.

My DD took the Kent test last September, her school did y5 reasoning test in summer before which gave an indication of the child’s potential to pass the test, but really that point is quite late to start tutoring. I’d suggest contacting a tutor or tutoring centre and ask them to do an assessment, but if your DD is within or exceeding in all areas it sounds like she’d have a good shot at passing.

I think roughly fifty percent of children in Kent take the test, and roughly fifty percent of those pass. It would be an exceptional child who passed with no kind of tutoring or prep at all, be it a private tutor or with a parent at home. The state schools aren’t allowed to teach the test and don’t, (the private schools aren’t meant to but most do) and as a previous poster said a lot of what is on the the test isn’t covered in y5.

A bright child may miss out on a Grammar place if not tutored, the not so bright but intensively tutored child may get the place. Look upon as tutoring as an insurance for your bright child, we did with DS, he was way over the pass mark so it helped us make the decision that Grammar was the place for him, teachers told us in year 4 he was a bright boy and would thrive at a Grammar.

I asked my child’s teacher at the start of year 4 , having already been told by his year 1 teacher that she already had a good idea which children would pass , and that he was one of those that should.

My child’s been tutored , and takes the test in September . Do I think he will pass? No idea is the honest answer . Some days he’s brilliant and some days I feel like banging my head on the table :-) It’s a lot to expect of a 10 year old . We all have off days and days when our brains just don’t get it. Test day might be an off day.

I don’t regret the tutoring , it’s backed up school work and the non verbal and verbal skills have value in teaching children to think logically. My son on the whole works hard , but he knows it’s nots the end of the world if things don’t work out on the day ,

There are plenty of families though locally where it’s treated as much more essential .

Kent here too. I would say your child will definitely need 'tutoring' to do their best in the KT - whether that's formal tutoring or practice at home. I'm sure some kids can and do pass with little or no practice - but it would be stressful for the child I think (particularly the NVR as others have said) and they might well not do as well as they could - which makes a difference if you are looking potentially at a SS grammar. I would say starting at the beginning of Y5 is about right, though you could probably start at Christmas.

As others have said, don't underestimate the importance of reading - and try to read with your child and talk about the story to help with comprehension. Maybe find out if your primary does Y5 CAT tests. If so, you are probably looking for a score of roughly 120 and above to pass (obv that's a very rough estimate). Read the 11+ user forum really thoroughly for Kent - it's a bit of a confusing site, but there's so much useful info buried on there.

you don’t HAVE to tutor your child, the alternative is DIY prep (going through practice and ten-minute-test books) with them, if you can’t afford the 2-3 K for tutoring (or have better uses for that cash!) or have multiple DC and would find the timings difficult, or if you think your child would find DIY prep less stressful.

there’s a good internet discussion forum: there is a general section and regional selections: lots of info in the Kent section for you to look at.

www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/11plus/