Primary appeal help?

[Alb1]

We are appealing for a primary school place and it’s a class size 30 appeal which I no normally arnt successful but I’m just wondering if anyone has any advice?

We moved into the area a month ago and so the application has been made outside of the normal timeframe, but both admissions and appeals have said if our application had been made on time (I.e if we lived here sooner) he absolutely would have got a place because we are only 0.2 miles from the school. It’s the only one in our catchment.

We haven’t been formally told why he didn’t get accepted but from speaking to the school we no it’s because there are already 30 pupils. The next nearest school is down a busy A road, that is very dangerous to cross (which you have to do to get to the school) and there are no crossings, and it is not possible to walk there, we would be relying on public transport for school. And being so close to the village school we are basing the appeal on the fact a reasonable decision maker should admit him as an excepted pupil because the other nearest schools, although 2.5 miles away are not safely accessible by public transport. Added to factors such as going to school with kids at his new nursery, he’s already been disrupted by relocation and so won’t no anyone and will struggle to make friends at the other school (semirural, so again can’t walk to safely), and going to our local school, which is the only one in our catchment will allow him to settle into the community better.

Does anyone have any tips or think we stand any chance? As we’ve not been given actual reasons for refusal it’s hard to structure the argument properly really. The whole situation is quite stressful and admissions have been difficult throughout so I’d be greatful for any help

The reason is you were too late! It's not the admissions fault you moved and disrupted him. Wait for a place to come up...

You have zero grounds for appeal. Why would public transport be unsafe? He would not be travelling alone.

Something to research is that my friends child had a taxi paid for by the la as it was further than 2 miles and didn't have pavements for the whole route.

I didn’t say it was their fault... the argument is that the prejudice against him not going to the school is greater than the prejudice to the school allowing an extra pupil. Otherwise I would be appealing on the basis that they made a mistake wouldn’t I. If you have no helpful info and just want to be rude the door is that way —>

My first reply was to usually the rest was a crosspost.

Public transport isn’t unsafe, crossing a busy A road is.

There is no prejudice against your dc though, and crossing a busy road with an adult is not unsafe.

If the route is deemed unsafe he’ll be given transport to school B.

Late applications aren’t grounds for appeal.

However it sounds like you should be quite high up their waiting list; so fingers crossed.

Ok. 🙄 You've looked into school funding and numbers per teacher etc?

I'm sorry to be blunt but you need to suck it up until a place becomes available. That's what people do who move.

Could you not have checked before you moved at all?

I don't mean to be unkind but the prejudice nonsense all sounds very entitled.

Sorry; that’s only if it’s unsafe AND over the statutory distance.

Assuming it's for a reception place and the school admits 30, then no you don't stand a chance. I can't believe the school 2.5 miles away is unsafe to travel to. Might be a pain in the arse circuitous route, but having a bus stop on the other side of an A road is not unsafe. Plus he'd he be offered free transport anyway which might well be a taxi.

Unreasonable is a much much much higher bar - think witness protection type scenarios.

You have the option of course to keep him in nursery and on the waiting list till the term after he's 5 and keep your fingers crossed someone leaves.

Are you on the waiting list already? And have you checked your position? At that distance you might be very high up. In our area there’s movement in the list right up until August.

If you can get the bus, it’s ‘safe’, so the road is no argument. They may answer distance with funding a taxi or mini bus.

I don’t think you have any grounds for appeal, sorry 😬

Presumably your are number 1 on the waiting list? Have you called to verify this? It's a high chance a space will come up.

It is.... there are no crossings on the road, it’s a 60 road that’s the only major route between a large city and a large town. The other school use the church opposite it, but because it’s on the other side of the road they have to load the kids onto a bus, because it isn’t safe to cross the road with children.

Prejudice is their terminology not mine so it’s not entitled, I’m just using the words they use in their paperwork. I don’t ‘have’ to wait and suck it up, I’m legally entitled to appeal, I even said I no it’s unlikely, and in reality we will end up waiting and that’s fine, but I’m still allowed to appeal. Didnt realise this was a touchy subject on mumsnet I’m greatful to those with opinions that arnt so stroppy about it tough. I no our appeal is unlikely. If we end up at the school that they will provide a taxi from (and that’s not guaranteed, they can provide a bus pass) id have to give up my job as it’s the opposite direction to work and I couldn’t make it in time, logistically it wouldn’t work out, we’ve been offered a place at another school that we could manage with my job, but arnt eligible for transport help as it’s a few hundred yards further by their distance, which is why we are giving the appeal a go despite the low chance.

And before anyone says it I no our work issues arnt grounds for appeal, we arnt trying to appeal on that basis, but it is part of our reason for trying.

I would certainly put the thing about no road crossing to a bus stop on a 60 A road in writing. That’s awful. I still think the most likely answer to that is a funded taxi from your door. Could you do that for a while until a place comes up?

What is your waiting list position?

I think the shirty responses are exasperation. Primary appeals come up on here a lot after people haven’t paid enough attention to the application process then panic, and there are very few genuine grounds for appeal.

Have you visited the schools, OP?

Appeals are really stressful, it does sound as if the waiting list would be the most likely to succeed here.

I don't think it is a touchy subject OP, you have been offered two other schools one of which would allow you to stay in your job. You do know why he was refused though - it was already full when you made your late application. I moved before my DD started reception and we were offered one school - in those circumstances, you don't get much of a choice! Fortunately for us, I went round the one school we were offered and liked it, and it was the right place for DD.

Good luck with the appeal OP.

We are number 1 on the waiting list, but I no there are several other appeals, so I want to appeal aswell really so that if the other appeals are on similiar grounds and one magically gets upheld we don’t loose out, because then if someone left the class would just go back to 30, we wouldn’t get the place. And also admissions advised us to appeal so we have, they told me to put in the appeal at the same time as proving residence to meet the appeals deadline so that’s what I did, just trying to get prepared now.

If we don’t get into this school it’s not the end of the world, I havnt said it is at all, but I don’t want to go to an appeal unprepared so just thought I’d try for some advice, thanks again to those who have given it or wished luck etc

If by class size 30, you mean it is an appeal under Infant Class Size rules (years R, 1 or 2) then the 'balance of prejudice' is not a relevant grounds for appeal.

The only permitted grounds for ICS are

• mistake in handling the application (either in how your application was processed, or by having impermissible arrangements). It does not sound as if these apply
• the decision is so unreasonable that it is perverse (in the legal sense). The threshhold for this is very high - eg child protection issues.

Can you confirm which year group?

Reception. All the information I’ve found has suggested, including the notes for the appeal panel have said the prejudice thing can be a reason, if they feel it’s correct of course. It’s great to hear your point tho, il do some more research on it, thanks

If it is ICS, then Meditrina is correct - the prejudice argument is not a valid basis (I Chair appeals panels). You would need to show a mistake had been made that cost you a place, or the decision was unreasonable (in legal terms), which is a very high bar.

That’s useful to no, helps give a more realistic idea! Admissions told us we should deffiently appeal which seems strange now, and the appeals clerk told me it’s unlikely but still worth doing, so it’s useful to hear from others. If appeal wasn’t an option or if we fail appeal then I’m happy to just get on with things, it’s far from perfect but wel manage. But being repeatedly told we should appeal it seems like we arnt trying hard enough if we don’t really because it IS better for our son to be at the closer school. I’ve already submitted the appeal and got a hearing date so I’m not going to withdraw it, but atleast I can properly prepare myself for the reality of it rather than trying to just properly word the argument for the prejudice thing if it doesn’t even apply to our age group.

We won an ICS (yr2) appeal earlier this year. We won on the grounds of unreasonable to admit and dd became an 'excepted' child. ICS appeals are very hard to win but you don't know until you try.

We moved to a village with very poor transport, the nearest school with space was over 4 miles away and it was horrible, there was space for ds1 and ds2 but not dd. We moved as ds1 has AS and his old school was failing him. We were told not to bother appealing to begin with so waited 5 months during which time dd was Home educated. The head then advised us to appeal as someone else was for the same year group. They lost their appeal.

We won on the grounds of the circumstances that meant we had to move, ds1 being settled and seeing a reduction in his anxiety meant moving him again would be detrimental to his mental health, that we lived in the village, it was our local school, and her siblings attended the school. They were also unhappy that dd was HE whilst waiting for a space. We were first on the waiting list, and that it was only 2 terms left before they moved to year 3.

It wasn't a unanimous decision though and I was very shocked when our appeal was upheld. I would say appeal but be prepared to lose. I think we were the only family to win an ICS appeal in our area in the last few years. It turned out that a child left 4 weeks after dd started so she would have got in then anyway. Stay on the waiting list as you never know. Good luck.

I’ve read a lot of these threads over the last few weeks so I thought I’d come back and update mine as it’s always more satisfying when people do.

We had our appeal and we found out today it was upheld, we got into the school! I’m honestly shocked, I’ve given up hope really after reading into them properly. I’m not sure what did it, wether they were sympathetic over our transport issues (no other school within their guide of 2 miles), or wether the other persons appeal helped, maybe there’s had to be upheld regardless and so they took sympathy on us. No idea until they send us the paperwork for it but we are very happy anyway.

what a great update, congratulations OP - you must be really pleased!

Will there be 31 in the class then?