Is this normal for 5 yr old in reception

[Snufflepiglet]

My spring born DD (5) is in reception and is really struggling with phonics.

We've practiced every night since Sept and they even did a bit of phonics when she was in preschool but it still isn't clicking. She can get the words dad, sad and mad but not consistently. She gets sounds mixed up somethimes, or mishears words. Hearing has been checked and is ok.

School say she will get it eventually but I think it's starting to get to her and she has noticed some of her friends are reading books.

She had a speech and language delay when she was younger and has some traits of ASD which was being investigated but I think she is being discharged at the next appointment.

Whay can I do to help her more? Do I speak to school again or am I worrying over nothing? Thanks

Sorry I should've said she knows the individual sounds so she will say mmm ah da but then say a completely different word and tbh I think she is just guessing

Sounds like she's struggling to blend the sounds together, I work in a school and worked with a child like this. I just found books with the fewest words in and read with them as much as I could, I sounded every single word out. They're better now but still not where they 'should be'. Don't pressure yourself as some children do take longer. I know a few children aged 6/7 that cannot blend or read still.

My DS is the same, although he isn't 5 until August. He cannot get his little head around phonics, all the letters he can sound but just can't blend the sounds.

He is definitely behind others in his class although, for now I'm not worrying. They're so little still and I'm sure they'll get there eventually :)

Google Auditory Processing Disorder. What you describe is bang on.

They don’t do full diagnosis testing until they are 7-8 years old as it’s really full on, but you can get your son screened earlier.

Sorry, daughter

Blending is so hard for them. My DS (5) Autumn birthday so a bit older has only just got it. I can't tell you how many times I thought he wouldn't. Repeating d-a-d, d-a-d over and over just for him to proudly say jam or something totally random! But one day it just clicked.

Have you tried blending sound by sound so /d/ .../d/ +/a/ da ...da+/d/ dad
Focus on words that have a simple consonant vowel consonant structure like dad not word like stop or hand as these are more difficult in the early stages. I highly recommend a free online course for parents https://www.udemy.com/help-your-child-to-read-and-write/

DD is in yr4. Her summer-born best friend had similar issues and started yr1 still struggling to read simple CVC words. Something 'clicked' during yr1 though and by the beginning of yr3 she was as good at reading as the majority of the class. Some children just take a little longer to get there.

Thank you everyone.

Thanks Zodlebud Yes, I've thought about that before, the profile fits her too a tee. She hates loud places and it's like she can't hear me or pay attention to anything when we are somewhere busy. But school say she is ok there so I don't know. Do you know how I would get her assessed for that? I will mention it to paeds at our next appointment. I think they think I'm over anxious (and maybe I am)?

My 24 year old DD still can't do phonics. She is dyslexic. She knows the sounds, but whichever part of her brain should allow them to click just doesn't work for her. It is possibly just that your DD is still young and it could take her a bit longer, but dyslexia is something to keep in the back of your mind.

Don’t worry, and don’t ever feel there is anything wrong with DD just because her school's narrow approach doesn’t work for her.

I could probably write a book on how children are frequently failed by phonics, whilst schools continue to slavishly adhere to the one system as if it really could work for all.

Fair play, phonics works for some children. It does not work for others: which is hardly surprising when you realise is has no connection with the way language works, or the incredible way in which small children develop communication skills prior to reading.

In brief, schools continue to flog phonics because it suits the classroom. Ie, they can 'teach' little snippets of skills without having to adapt to any individual child's interests/understanding; they can issue frequent awards such as stickers and check of lots of little ‘ achievements' that give parents and children a warm glow of satisfaction that they are making steady progress. They’ve done this for so long that it doesn’t even occur to educationalists that the possibility of an alternative could even exist (so if it doesn’t suit a particular child, then it must be the child/parents' fault.)

Oh, and it’s worth mentioning that this whole scheme is backed by a multi-million £££ academic publishing industry eager to sell a huge variety of product into homes and schools.

I suggest you get hold of Glenn Doman's book 'Teach your baby to read' and give his methods a try. Originally published in the 60's as the result of Doman's work with brain-injured children who had been written off by educational system, there are now updated versions available.

I’ve used it to successfully support two and three years who want to learn to read, and it has taken as little as a few weeks in some cases.

Out of my five kids, 3 of them were ok with phonics, the other two found it incomprehensible. I found some old fashioned reading books for the other two and they picked up words as we went along. I really don't think phonics is the definitive best way for all kids

Can she recognise the phonics, but not blend?
Or not even recognise the phonics?

For basic phonics, we got the ReadWriteInc cards, made a letterbox out of a cereal box and played posting in for the ones she knew, slowly adding more when she was secure on the first.
For blending we did bits where we would sound out words before saying them. e.g. What a lovely /d/o/g/ dog. Would you like to /p/a/t/ him?

My DD2, 14, has some auditory processing issues (which secondary school uncovered).
One thing we found is she can't sound out words to herself very well for spelling purposes, but if we sound them out for her then she can spell them. On her own she will miss out whole syllables.

My 6yo can't blend sounds and sounds very similar to your DD.

It's easier said than done but try not to stress about it, we read simple we books with few repetitive key words e.g. Mum, Dad, and, a, the. She can read these, probably from memory but it's boosted her confidence and has encouraged her to focus on the word rather than the sounds.

As much as the government like to argue, education isn't really a one size fits all thing and phonics just don't work for her and that's ok!

Incidentally my eldest has Autism and a processing disorder yet managed then fine.

My dad, just turned 5 struggled with blending. I spent a lot of time madly sounding out cvc words and I joined him to the reading eggs website which gives you a programme of short lessons based on phonics and rewards you with a fun creature hatching from an egg at the end of each. This really helped and over February half term he suddenly ‘got’ blending and is now ok with this (recognising high frequency words is another issue though...)

That should say ds obviously not my dad!

Thanks everyone. She's ok at recognising the individual sounds and is pretty good at the high frequency words but it's the blending part she's struggling.

We've been using the reading eggs website and the teach your monster to read but it's not clicking yet.

I will have a look for that book, thank you for the recommendation :)

The whole phonics thing is a bit of a straight jacket. My DM (long since retired) was still teaching when the government first introduced literacy hour, followed by more and more explicit teaching methods for reading, culminating in phonics. Prior to this it was the other extreme - surround kids with books and hope they pick up reading by osmosis. This worked for me (I was never taught how to read, I just 'got it' ) but many of my peers were left floundering.

As a teacher myself, I've taught many Secondary kids with poor literacy who needed a variety of methods for reading to click. Primary teachers are unfortunately restricted as to methods, resources, time and training (not their fault!). 2 decades of government pushing the phonics agenda means not much remains beyond it.

I would definitely encourage multi-sensory learning if the usual phonics approach isn't sticking. Shape recognition, pattern recognition etc can work well for some children. Look for dyslexia-friendly resources as they employ a much wider range of methods, games and activities. Above all, finding engaging texts on subjects your child loves will really spur them on. Nothing wrong with a whole-text approach as long as the child isn't just abandoned as we were in the 80s

Snufflepiglet - you need to get a referral from a GP for the APD testing. Depending on where you live in the country this is easier said than done. To be honest I had to fight and fight for it. Numerous hearing tests came back with no issues but DD just couldn’t hear in loud situations.

Multiple trips to the doctor and it was only when I put my foot down we got the referral (but we used our private health insurance to speed things up). The testing was very clear cut - she has it.

This website lists all the approved testing sites.

apdsupportuk.yolasite.com/

School have been wonderful and made numerous adjustments. She is like a different child.

It is estimated up to 10% of children have it, although it often only gets diagnosed where children display significant problems. School might not have even heard of it.

As an aside, many children with APD will never be able to learn how to read using a phonics scheme. Most can only learn to read the whole word. Try it with some simple words at home and forget the sounding out. If she can do this then it’s another strong pointer to APD.

Oddly enough, my child with auditory processing disorder was the quickest to read. He learns well as long as he’s at the front of the class near the teacher and sitting alone, so that no-one is chatting next to him.

My DD was the slow one to blend and didn’t really get it until the end of reception. We had lots of cuh-ah-tu “dog”!
Eventually we got a tun full of letters and initially spent time trying to blend two of them and then moved onto three. Her school kept pushing reading books on us, but we just persevered with the letters until she did finally get it.

That’s the thing with APD - not every child is affected in the same way and as a result it quite often gets dismissed by schools and GPs.

My daughter also hasn’t had any issues with learning to read using a phonics scheme but my nephew who also has it just can’t read in this way and apparently that’s really common. He moved to whole word reading and is now flying. It’s about working out exactly how the APD affects them individually and then adjusting accordingly.

It’s the combination of the reading, mishearing words, aversion to noisy situations, normal hearing tests but not appearing to be able to hear that are pointers to APD, not just the phonics problem in isolation (which like many people here point out some children just take longer to click with).

OP can she hear the word if you say the sounds rather than her?

Thank you all so much. Most of the time, no, although she will get the odd one but I think a lot of the time she is guessing.

I thought we were getting discharged for investigations into ASD but I've just today after posting this had a copy of the SALT report from an observation at school and they've picked up on some things so I think maybe she will have an ADOS afterall perhaps. They also said she had some attention and listening difficulties so maybe it's all related..?

Thanks so much for your suggestions everyone. Very much appreciated

You’ve gotten some great advice here to look into.

If it isn’t a medical condition something that might help is playing rhyming games / singing rhyming songs. Also, playing a game to see how many words you can name that start with a letter.

It’s meant to help kids start understanding that words are composed of smaller parts which can help early literacy click.

Good luck!

Can she rhyme/hear rhyme? Play I spy eg hearing c for carrot? Clap syllables when you’ve demonstrated what you mean? Those are earlier skills to develop. If you google playing with sounds (government docu from years ago) there are nice ideas for listening games pre phonics.

If ok with that and knows sounds but can’t blend take it back a step. Only short words, a vowel first eg at, an, am. Then I vowel words. Use something physical like magnetic or wooden letters. You make a word like am and she says the sound whilst sliding the a forward, then the m then blends them. If struggling show her by sliding the letters and saying ‘my turn a-m, am’, then ‘your turn’ and she can copy. Take your time before moving to cvc.

Read to her a lot. If she’s writing her name or you see a word talk about a word, a letter, that letters are different from numbers etc.

A good number of kids don’t get it until year 1, so don’t panic. (Teacher here.).

Sorry for typos am on my phone!