Teachers helping in Sats test

[Lindy360]

My DS is about to take his Ks2 Sats and he's really getting stressed about it. I have just been talking to a friend and her DS who sat his Sats last year at the same primary school and they informed me that it is standard practise for the school staff to sit one to two/three pupils and guide them through the test - telling them which answers they've got it wrong and telling them which operations to use to solve the reasoning questions. Surely this cannot be true! While I really want DS to do well, I can't see how this will help him later in life. Even if they don't tell the children the answers it sounds like cheating to me. My friend is adamant that this has happened with all three of her offspring.

well the extra time in ours seems to be "lets do some practice papers, if you aren't finished in the time we will let you have as long as you need" then those children told they have to read a passage to find out if they should have extra time in the actual SATS but them being told "if you take over a minute to read this passage then you will get extra time". lots of 11 year olds know perfectly well that the extra time helps them so therefore read more slowly. trust me some of these children are not slow readers. not by any stretch of the imagination.

How could you possibly know that, one way or another? As a parent?

"Yes they are. Lots of the spag questions involve writing sentences." where do they have to write a sentence? <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/709997/STA187970e_2018_ks2_English_GPS_Paper1_questions.pdf.pdf" target="_blank">https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachmentdata/file/709997/STA187970ee**e*<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/709997/STA187970e_2018_ks2_English_GPS_Paper1_questions.pdf.pdf" target="blank">2018ks2s22<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/709997/STA187970e_2018_ks2_English_GPS_Paper1_questions.pdf.pdf" target="_blank">EnglishGPSSS<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/709997/STA187970e_2018_ks2_English_GPS_Paper1_questions.pdf.pdf" target="blank">Paper1r1<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/709997/STA187970e_2018_ks2_English_GPS_Paper1_questions.pdf.pdf" target="_blank">questions.pdf.pdff

Well Q26 asks them to write a question.

Also if you look at the two previous years' tests you will see more examples of being asked to write sentences- commands for instance. These also include questions where they are asked to use a particular word in two sentences- once as a noun and once as a verb.
So they do have to write sentences.

As for the writing - they are teacher assessed and even if teachers are not moderated by the local authority then they should be moderating in school and also with other schools to assure judgements. You certainly can't meet the expected standard without being able to write a sentence.

I'm a Year 6 teacher by the way and if you think the above doesn't constitute writing a sentence then perhaps you could clarify what you mean by "writing a sentence" as I'm wondering if you mean from a creativity perspective?

The SPAG and writing framework are both a nonsense that kill creativity and the fact the Grammar obsession isn't carried on in KS3 shows what a farce and waste of time it is.
I hate Sats! Wish we could ban them once and for all.

Lynda, you know as well as I do that the construction of a sentence in the grammar test does not necessarily make someone a coherent writer - and to suggest otherwise is completely disingenuous, come on.

Moderation is supposed to pull us in line but there are schools when they are not being moderates who take the piss, definitely locally. We moderate as a group of schools and they will try anything - I wouldn’t, but it’s habitual. Makes me so cross. Look at science spot checks - 28% pass rate on tests but ....
Those schools are their own worst enemy

Moder

Lynda lets be honest the child can get question 26 wrong or even miss it out completely and pass the SPAG test ...it isn't a test of writing.
Like Feenie I know schools who play the system when it comes to moderation. Not exactly cheating but stretching things to the limit

I didn't say it was a test of writing- it completely isn't. I was simply referring to the statement that they do not have to write sentences- they do. I think the test is a nonsense

Lynda, you know as well as I do that the construction of a sentence in the grammar test does not necessarily make someone a coherent writer - and to suggest otherwise is completely disingenuous, come on.

Where did I suggest that? I don't think that for a second. I was merely responding to the point that there are no questions where a child has to write a sentence. That's not an accurate statement- they do!
Does the test prove they can write? Absolutely not! I never suggested such a thing whatsoever.

Reposting as quote wasn't in bold so unclear!

I didn't say it was a test of writing- it completely isn't. I was simply referring to the statement that they do not have to write sentences- they do. I think the test is a nonsense

Lynda, you know as well as I do that the construction of a sentence in the grammar test does not necessarily make someone a coherent writer - and to suggest otherwise is completely disingenuous, come on.

Where did I suggest that? I don't think that for a second. I was merely responding to the point that there are no questions where a child has to write a sentence. That's not an accurate statement- they do!
Does the test prove they can write? Absolutely not! I never suggested such a thing whatsoever.

I concede that one out of the fifty questions in the 2018 test asked for a sentence

I don't understand how kids are getting extra time just because they read a bit slowly. Is this actually true? My DS has been granted 25% extra time based on EP and SENCo recommendations. I'll be seriously peed off if kids have it without a proper need or diagnosis or going through the proper process.

They don't need a diagnosis for KS2 SATs

Feenie some of them are friends of my kids and some are kids of my friends, I have years of experience teaching children and I have known these kids since they were 3 in the cases I am referring to. Children who were reading chapter books fluently before they turned 6 or 7 generally don't have any issues with actual reading and if they could read thick chapter books fluently and at normal reading speed then then I can't honestly believe they can't now. Their parents are puzzled by them being given extra time for being slow readers as they don't believe they are. I do know you all like to say "oh parents can't possibly know what other children's situations are" and I would agree with you for children I don't know and I wouldn't comment but believe me that sometimes yes parents DO know as much as teachers (as some of us ARE) and sometimes we DO know the children!

of course the fact that they don't need a diagnosis for KS2 SATS is actually really quite unfair to those children because it just means they potentially end up with inaccurate marks and that CAN (depending on the secondary school) result in them being put in inappropriate groups at the start of year 7. They would hopefully soon be put in the right group but I personally think that would be more of a knock to their confidence than just getting a correct result in the first place. Obviously some have undiagnosed problems and this would therefore level the playing feed for those and hopefully their secondary school would soon pick up on their problems and provide support but we all know that in some of these cases it is purely for the school to get the best results they can.