Small class size - any issues?

[Overthinker33]

Hi, I’ve looked at the primary allocations info available for the upcoming school year. DC has been offered a place at our first choice school. I’ve just seen that 15 places were offered on national offer day, it’s left me feeling a little concerned and worried as to why it’s so below capacity (30). The school has a good rating from ofsted and obviously we liked it enough after viewing it. Please tell me there was is no reason to worry!! Obviously a small class size can be a good thing and I understand vacancies can still be filled...

If it's a small school some may be put off due to activities and facilities. Small classes are great from an educational pov, but games, PE and after school activities can be narrow, like no football team etc.

Thank you. I think I’ll call the school next week to ask about class sizes in other years and provision of school clubs etc

It was the down side that we found, but it was some time ago and maybe things have changed our kids who had small classes are 27 and 24 now.
It didn't seem a problem until they were upper juniors so around y4 - y6
One of their classes my ds was one of 3 boys.
If they fall out with a friend it can be harder as there aren't so many, but again schools may have identified this and done something to help.
It helps if there's a middle school for them to join with more children.

My DCs school is like this. Both have 16 in the class (DD will be starting this September) but we live in a smallish village and people tend to move in with slightly older children so the classes get bigger as you go up the school. It's lovely that they get more 1-2-1 support but school trips are more expensive as there are less children to split the cost of a coach between.

One thing to bear in mind is schools are paid per pupil so more bums on seats = more money for the school. If the class is usually 30 then expectation is probably a teacher and a TA for the class. If only half the number of people in the class the school is still potentially paying for two staff members with half the money for that class. Have experienced this in DD's previous school. Great school but had had a period of transition to academy status where there were spaces in all years and the underfunding became evident over time. Nice to have the smaller class but her school now has a full 30 in all years and it feels like it's just better resourced all round.

@makingtime I do worry about the finding in our school. Although there seems to be 2 staff members in class at any one time in the infants at least.

If the school PAN (pupil number per year group) 15 or higher, probably 30?
If it's 15, then all the available places were allocated and it's almost certain there will be mixed aged classes, if not in Reception year, then further up the school (e.g. 4 classes in the school: R, Y1-2, Y3-4, Y5-6).

PAN = 30

I would be a bit concerned about this. Some local authorities publish historical data on how many offers were made on offer day going back a few years so it might be worth having a look if you can find out it this is an anomaly and therefore there's a reason for it lurking somewhere. Do you know any parents of children already there you can get the low down from?

Sorry no help but just wondered how do you find this information? A few Google searches hasn't shown me anything so obviously typing the wrong things in...

Google “primary school allocations [insert area name”...or Look around the school admissions team pages

Id be a tiny bit concerned about funding and what the school will do (eg mixed year groups etc) but it will be fine if they do mixed classes for most children.

I think I’m going to request a change of preference...friendship issues worry me, no numbers to dilute issues (in addition to being single form entry). Thanks everyone

Our local authority has 'allocation day statistics' on the admissions part of its website - shows all the schools, the number allocated on the day and the number of first choices/total preferences. No admission distances for academies who control their own admissions though.

I would be quite concerned by this! When you looked around, what were the class sizes like?

I think as time goes on, the school will struggle funding a class that’s only half full and would be looking to double up and mix year groups or cover the class with HLTAs as it’s cheaper.

@holidayshopping

The class sizes appeared average. Since it’s an out of catchment school, when I was looking at allocations info I was looking at whether all preferences were met and must’ve overlooked the total number of places offered each year; I’ve looked at the info again and historically it does seem to be below capacity each year on offer day (eg around 20, though obviously the numbers can change in either direction after this). I will ring the school to ask re class sizes in other years but I think I’m pretty set on changing my preferences and hoping to get our catchment school (was second choice)

Thanks, I can't find anything for Birmingham schools though.

As others have said it would concern me that the school was so far below the allowed allocation number. Are you able to speak to the school about it for any reassurance.

If the school is only attracting 15 pupils to reception and will have similar in years 1 and 2, then the school does have a funding issue as to what can be afforded in the way of staff. If the numbers in years 1 and 2 comes to 30 or less then I would expect the school to run with a reception class of 15 and one school teacher and then a mixed year 1 and 2 class, probably with one school teacher and one TA. If year 1 and year 2 combined comes to more than 30 but less than 45 then I would expect the school to split the three year groups into 2 mixed classes, reception and year 1 and year 1 and year 2.
I think you do need to consider why the school is not attracting enough pupils and a good indicator would be the number in your catchment school which was second preference. If that is nearly full then it is a perceived issue with the school offered if all the local schools have significant number of places then it is a problem of the area having too many school places.

Too small for my liking for tons of reasons

Is this an anomaly or is it always like this? When DC1 started school, it was oversubscribed and no out of catchment non-siblings got a place; two years later, DC2 starts and, on allocation day, they were at 51 with a PAN of 60. It just seemed to be one of those things... lower birth rate year meant that was less competition anyway, it seemed that there were fewer children of the right age in the village (both pre-schools had had slightly smaller cohorts than usual) and people out of catchment had heard they wouldn't get it so didn't bother putting it down. Word spread and by half term the year group was full.
This year, seems to be another low birth rate year in the area as everyone I know has got their first choice and several schools seem to have one or two spaces which is unusual. The school in the next village which is always oversubscribed has got four spaces and their PAN is only 20. People have posted about this on community FB groups and no doubt in other places too and I already know of two families who have been allocated their first choice school and been really pleased but who have called the local authority to see if they can have one of the "spare" spaces.

I would definitely check how the classes are organised if you decide to stay. As the mum of a summer born, but very bright child, I would have been furious if she had been separated out from older friends just because she was younger. Sometimes when schools split year groups on age, as suggested by admission, it’s a disaster for some children.

Dd1 was in a small class from reception to grade 2. We moved her in grade 3 and the difference is huge.

The small class was not good for her, she couldn't find 'her people' and there was quite a few disruptive kids for such a small class size.

She's now in a bigger class and completely thriving, her confidence and friendship circle is amazing.