Corbyn pledges to abolish KS1 and 2 SATs

[noblegiraffe]

If Labour get elected, Corbyn says that he will abolish primary school SATs.

“Instead, Labour would introduce alternative assessments which would be based on "the clear principle of understanding the learning needs of every child."”

I’m sure some on here would think that this is a great idea, but to me it sounds like a poorly thought-out headline grabber that will cause more problems than it solves. What then for school accountability at primary and secondary? What on earth does he mean by ‘alternative assessments’ (sounds like a ‘we’ll fill in the details of that later’ policy that will be a total bodge job).

Wales went down this route and their educational standards have gone in totally the wrong direction.

I’m sure that they should be less high stakes and not allowed to distort the Y6 curriculum the way they do (tales of breakfast and Easter revision sessions for 11 year olds are horrifying) but am unconvinced that ditching them is a positive move for education.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-47950985

"Maybe they’ll have some ideas of what to replace the SATs with that won’t be awful or useless." When questioned Angela Rayner admitted they didn't know but it will be different tests.

I'm afraid I can't help thinking someone said "it will be really popular with teachers if you say you'll scrap SATs"

I wish England would do what a lot of countries do, and have a concrete curriculum which sets out clearly how many hours are be devoted to each subject and what content is to be covered in each subject too.

Perhaps take a leaf from Ireland, which has a brand and balanced curriculum at primary level, supported by textbooks that go home daily. From what I have heard there is a good balance between rigor and "all-rounded-ness."

Because in the current situationwhere the curriculum is only vaguely set out, and where SATs results can have severe consequences for schoolsthe inevitable result is that, since nature abhors a vacuum "in the absence of a concrete curriculum, in the end the tests will become the curriculum." Ie, schools start junking content that is not taught on the test, replace entire subjects with narrow test drill and so on.

I think this goes some way to explain why English kids do quite well by international standards at primary (see TIMSS and PIRLS for 10yos) but their advantage fades out by 15 (see PISA). It is hard to do well at secondary school-level work if you did not get a good solid foundation in history, geography, science, civics, literature and so on, because you will lack the vocabulary and background knowledge that are required to understand high-level texts and persuasively write good ideas of your own etc.

Oh, and a lot of the grammar stuff has got to go. A good basic foundation in grammar is essential, but some of the stuff I have seen kids being drilled in is simply stupid--it's just a bit of "back to basics traditionalism" signaling. Meanwhile, the same kids often know nothing about the Black Death or the Potato Famine or Napoleon or the Indus Valley....

Teacher Assessment only has worked well in Y2 since 2005. The only sticking point is whether it should be used as a measure a)at all at that age and b)as a starting point to measure progress.

The actual assessment process works well. Apart from the schools who insist on being idiots and focussing on the tests anyway, not understanding the importance of the TAFs in making the judgement. All the objectives are based on work in books over tkme.

Forgot to add, but countries which are famous for maintaining high standards without a lot of test-and-punish accountability, inevitably have detailed, balanced curricula with specified content and proper textbooks. Even Finland is heavy on textbook usage, and standardized textbooks have to be used and are the core of the curriculum. So they maintain accountability--using other methods! It works fine, but you need this good curriculum set in place first.

No accountability at all and just having a free-for-all for schools to do what they like, does not work anywhere. Scotland and Wales have gone down this routeget rid of the nasty tests and let the kids play, but without putting anything in place of the testsand their education systems appear to be doing worse on every measure.

What are the problems with the Lib Dems' edu policy, by the way? (genuine question, I know nothing about this).

That they will go back on their promises at the drop of a hat? Student loans, anyone?

There are plenty of ways to introduce alternative assessments. Teachers could assess children without wasting an entire year prepping the children for a test, for them to have to sit CATs as soon as they go to senior. Testing on mass doesn’t make schools accountable, it stresses children out as schools are playing the league table game. Senior schools do the same by suggesting children don’t sit their GCSEs. I’d rather time was spent teaching children.

OFSTED is the way we assess schools and their effectiveness.

What a sensible post Kokeshi

I don't think Wales' standards is to do with the scrapping of the SATs, I think we have bigger socioeconomic problems causing that issue. We have tests at the end of every year now and they just become no big deal because pupils expect them anually and there is less pressure than two "major" assessments.

Why not make sats simpler and a ‘check’ on reading, comprehension and arithmetic? Pass/not yet met standard. Kids that do not pass can have additional help and take it again or be offered repeating a year.

Statistics should come with an explanation that multiple things affect pass marks at schools eg English as 2nd language, demography not only teaching quality

20 years ago sats were no big deal. It’s how we use them that is toxic.

Given the shambles that is the KS2 writing assessment shifting everything to Teacher assessment doesn’t seem like a good idea. And then you’ve got the workload issue on top.

If some schools are using year 6 just to practise SATs, wouldn’t it be a better idea to deal with that issue rather than scrapping testing?

Lib Dem headlines.

They also want to scrap SATs - their plan for a replacement is moderated teacher assessment (boo!) with a ‘lighter touch’ standardised assessment test. And they seem to want progress 8 accountability for secondary schools to be based on this teacher assessment (double boo!).

Their full policy paper is here: d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/libdems/pages/42359/attachments/original/1518080686/Every_Child_Empowered_-_Policy_Paper.pdf?1518080686

Rafa what’s the problem with the KS2 writing assessment? (Is writing only teacher assessed?)

Yes

But key stage 1 SATS are being scrapped anyway! This is a non-story. What have the conservatives decided on for a replacement? Or is it still a work in progress like Brexshit?

Tories are scrapping KS1 SATs to replace them with the Reception Baseline Assessment.

Is the teacher assessment of writing a complete pain in the arse then? From a secondary perspective, it’s irrelevant as only reading and maths are used for progress 8.

I wonder if Corbyn would have got as big a cheer at the NEU conference if he said ‘you know how KS2 writing assessment is a pain in the arse? We’re going to make you do it for reading and maths too!’

To be honest the abolition of QCA was the worst own goal that the government made. At least when there was some distance from the DfE, there was more independence of research and consultation than there is now, largely due to understaffing and huge change in focus at the DfE with the expansion of the academies programme.

Divorcing the attainment of pupils from the standards of teaching, or at least allowing context to be used as an indicator of why attainment is at a particular level (such as outlier cohorts, change in test regime etc) would be the most pragmatic way to still assess the ability of the children whilst not putting so much pressure on SLT that they feel they have to game the system.

FWIW I took my son out of school during SATS week (8 years ago) and have no regrets. Teacher assessment is subjective but if there were more training offered in how to assess more objectively, and this were monitored more stringently without the pressure of having to get x% to level 5, that would be preferable.

Trying to fix teacher assessment so that it’s not biased is trying to fix human nature! It’s not fixable, and the amount of work that would be created in trying to fix it is totally unacceptable when we have a less biased alternative already in place.

I think that politicians need to be really careful when considering the workload implications of any changes. We’re in the middle of a teacher shortage crisis, and increasing workload will only make things worse.

The real problem with SATs is how high stakes they are for primary schools. The link with league tables, accountability and Ofsted are what really distorts the KS2 curriculum and puts stress on teachers and pupils, not the tests themselves.

League tables for primary schools based on SATs results are ridiculous - cohort sizes are way too small for any meaningful analysis.

Writing moderation is ridiculous! we have had two county moderators in our school at different times this year. One said a child was "working towards" the other said he was "at greater depth" Go figure!

Writing is so subjective, unlike Maths where there's a right or wrong answer, if it wasn't we'd all like the same book.

I agree with you noble but while there are tests, they will be used as a proxy for standards with Ofsted. Not sure really what the answer is, but it has to be centred on the pupils not the teachers.

Of course because the more aware families are the ones who are doing the extra work at home for the SATS.

Some of this is a parent problem.

What do parents want? School accountability. They like Ofsted grades. They want schools with high results.

They don’t want pressure to be put on their own kid to achieve those high grades.