Can anyone loan me a crystal ball?

[unlurk85]

We need to make a decision about DS5's schooling and it's driving me mad. Any thoughts would be gratefully received.

DS currently in reception at a big infant school (3 form entry 30 per class). He's not settled well. Teachers report low level disruption most days and he seems generally unhappy. He's a very bright boy and eldest in the year so I thought he was bored (although not the whole story as his handwriting isn't great and he causes trouble at carpet time too). We've tried everything to improve the behaviour from punishments to being v gentle and understanding. School also tried lots. They're doing some extended work with him but only read with him once a term and won't talk about changing his book band / giving him more challenging work etc.

So we're thinking of changing schools with two options-
-School 1 is private, would be a financial stretch and would make commute difficult. BUT has v small classes, positive ethos and would be prepared to stretch him more.

• School 2 is state and in next village. Also smaller classes and more flexibility to move between years for certain work (as they teach two years together). Would also make commute a bit more tricky.

School 1 and 2 both would involve changing DS2's nursery too.

Or we leave him where he is and hope as he progresses and grows up it all settles down. But they'd still only be reading with teacher once a term and same reluctance to move book bands/stretch him etc.

Wwyd?

Sorry just to add behaviour at home is fine. Bit defiant and intense with learning facts etc all the time but sounds like much worse at school.

I have just seen this.

I was interested about the handwriting, disruptive behaviour, intense facts, boredom. Has anyone ever suggested that your son may have additional needs? A lot of these traits sound like possible autism to be, including the handwriting.

With the writing, what support is he getting? Poor writing means he is using his concentration on communicating on paper and will have little spare for social and academic concentration. Try at home with exercises to develop hand strength and fine motor skills.

If there are underlying issues moving schools won't fix things. See if you can address his writing and speak to the school SENCO before you make any huge decisions. Good luck.

He maybe bright and mature academically, but he is still a 5 years old mentally and socially and getting used to school life. So, I wouldn't be so haste to change the school the school only because the school isn't giving him harder work.
Have you had proper meeting with school about how they can support him? Not all school are good at stretching, but never know until you ask.
Behaviour problem might improve with age too.

I also wondered whether he might be a bright boy with ASD/dyspraxia/related condition. Obviously this is just a thought and it's more than possible he's just 5 and still a little immature. If you moved DS to private would you also be able to afford younger DS to attend too?

Reception teacher here - nothing you've said says SEN or ASD to me. He sounds like a very typical 5 year old. Reading once a term sounds very odd and needs more questioning to understand how that works - I may not read books with my class individually (my very capable nursery nurse does though, every week) , but I read with them in other ways - games, activities etc.

Many children aren't writing independently at this point - they will sit and do a task with me, but when they write alone it tends to be random letters rather than thought out words.

What does he say about school? Are they covering topics that interest him? A lack of interest/engagement will lead to behaviour issues.

Ah thank you so much for replies. I've asked the school's opinion on additional needs as he's always just felt 'different ' to me but at the moment they don't think he has any. They're very negative about him and the recent parents evening they really wanted to focus on the behaviour and the handwriting and dismissed us when we tried to be more positive. So I'm really quite disappointed.

We've had three meetings with School with the teachers (job share) and SENCO also. They acknowledge he behaves much better 1:1 with adults and when being academically stretched which is why I thought of smaller classes and the private school.

We've been doing our maths based on both kids going there and it would be tight but not impossible. Plus they have lots of music and he's v musical too already.

Does anyone know how often he should be reading with the teacher? And whether reluctance to discuss more advanced work is a concern?

Thanks all again, bloody love Mumsnet

Oh and with the writing they're doing quite a bit to support development of his motor skills- chalking big letters on the playground, and miming big letters in the air before sitting down to write. They've asked us to do more at home to which we absolutely will. I'm not concerned at all about his writing being behind- he picks everything up so easily it's good for him to have to work at something!!

In our reception they read at least a couple of times a week with a grown up, it may be a TA or a trained volunteer rather than the class teacher though. I can see them being reluctant to engage with extension work if he still can’t behave as one would expect of a 5 year old in class - getting behaviour right is crucial.

Hmm the school don't sound great to be honest so on that basis I'd be considering changing him. My DC are in a prep school and both read 4 out of 5 days a week most of the time to a teacher - very occasionally to a parent helper.

@NotAnotherJaffaCake thanks for this. I'll maybe explore whether once a term is just class teacher or TA. I agree the behaviour needs to be right, but as I think it may be partly down to boredom I though extension work might kill two birds with one stone. Some of the disruption is him shouting out all the answers during group teaching. I acknowledge that must be hugely frustrating for the teacher and we've talked to him a lot about giving others a turn, but it's not improving sadly.... I really just think he's bored stiff.

I can see them being reluctant to engage with extension work if he still can’t behave as one would expect of a 5 year old in class - getting behaviour right is crucial.

To be fair lots of schools do have a better attitude than this. My school set work at the appropriate level - it's definitely not contingent on behaviour (although obviously behaviour is important). In reception though there wasn't much structured work lots of playing still through out the day.

It sounds like poor behaviour management - shouting out is what 5 year olds do! They should have ways of managing this.

DC is in an independent school and read every day to the teacher in KS1. We went private because we feared exactly what you describe - 90 children in a year group and DC being 'lost' in a big group and potentially resulting in behaviour issues. We still suspect mild ASD traits (apologies if this isn't the right way to put it) and there is a definite preference for maths/science/logic rather than anything creative. Loves reading but hates writing!

Obviously we have no way of knowing whether DC would have been fine in the local state school but it didn't feel right for him and there were no other options. Private is a stretch but it's worked well for DC. The other advantage is that there is a lot of sport and that's a huge plus for a DC who likes/needs to be active.

It doesn't sound like your DS is having a great experience and for that reason alone I would consider moving him to somewhere with smaller class sizes/year group and a more nurturing environment.

@RomaineCalm Yea your DC sounds very much like ours. Obsessed with science' maths and learning complicated facts. Reading everyday sound like a dream. Do you think the private school just keeps them so focussed that they don't have time/space to act out? That's what I was hoping. At home when we're doing science experiments/maths together or reading he's just so happy he beams at me! I assume you have no regrets about the financial element? Thanks

@unlurk85

No, no regrets although school fees make a big dent in our monthly income. I do think small classes mean that there's nowhere to hide so yes, probably more focused. They are also 'set' for maths and SPAG from Y2 which I believe is a positive although I know many will disagree. That said, they are still small children and most do have their moments and 'act out' at times. For me it's more about how it's handled - DC is well ahead academically but took longer than many to mature emotionally and it helped that he was with teachers that really understood.

There is a big caveat here that there are good and poor schools in both state and private sectors - I would look at as many options as possible.

My ds never really read with teacher or ta at school. They knew he can read well, and read extensively at home. But as pp said, they do let children read out loud during all the lessons, I wasn't particularly worried about him not reading 1-1.

If you think the private school can give him better education and you can afford it, I have no question about sending him there. But it does depend on school, is it really working on higher level, the level you think he is at? Do they have better resources? Do they have better peers that he can be good friends with and influence him in better way?

@irvineoneohone yes absolutely you make a very good point about the way behaviour will be handled. I was planning on asking when we look around the schools after Easter. I need to think of a way of asking without setting off alarm bells that he's going to be a difficult pupil! The disruption is so low level I'm surprised the current school can't deal with it better (eg he shouts out, glued himself to a chair, drew on his face with a pen, flicks sand, grabs toys). Again I understand it's annoying and frustrating for teachers but in my house that would be dealt with swiftly.

My ds is the same, do/did things you describe as a low level disruptions. It become much better as he got older. Obviously they need to learn to concentrate, but some children takes longer, and how the teacher deal with it depend on each teacher. If you work with school/teacher, and they can see you are doing best to support them, school and teacher seems to be very understanding, ime.

In terms of private vs state it definitely depends on the school. Some private schools are hot houses some are free range - you have to visit and try and gather as much as you can. I do think smaller class sizes work wonders for more quirky/emotional children. I have a bright but challenging boy and his prep just know him really well and handle him brilliantly (he needs firm boundaries coupled with lots of encouragement).

Although they read almost every day I think in any school most of the reading work happens at home. The teacher will hear him for a few minutes and practise at home is vital.

You can easily do the reading at home.
However im not sure of what not bothering tonread with them reflects of the school. I think it allows children with little parental help to fall behind.
We also experienced a lot of behaviour issues. I think it's possible that bright dc can use up their energy thinking/inventing.
For me the issue has been that you know xyz would help and more supervion in yr r and 1 but it just wasnt there.
I think a lot does level out reading wise by yr 2.
In a smaller class/private i would hope that my dc would have had more support with handwriting and maths.