Y6 SATs - am I failing dd?

[4strings]

I suspect I’m being ridiculous, but dd’s school is full of very competitive parents who push and push and push their dc.

Dd1 has, in comparison to some of her classmates, done very little in the way of SATs prep. She’s done a good chunk of the books we bought through school, does her homework etc (including that which is set over holidays) but I haven’t been pushing more regular homework/revision etc. It seems utterly pointless. We still don’t know where she’s going for y7. School A sets initially on SATs; School B (her first choice) is independent and doesn’t even do them. (the school issue is complex and not a simple matter of passing the 11+)

I’ve had a few raised eyebrows/sharp intakes of breath when I admit to not pushing my 11 to breaking point as seems to be prevalent in her class.

Am I wrong in this approach? Dd is likely to do well.

If the sats weren’t used for setting I agree they wouldn’t matter much. For dds school they do and as a result of us not helping her with maths she is in a lower set now in year 8 then she should be - often complaining work too easy limited to grade she can get. We now have to go and make a pain of ourselves to see if a place in top sets but they are full. Can’t help wishing had focussed on her maths SATs in year 6 instead of going on a family holiday.

Not a mistake I will make for dd2 you live and learn at parenting I guess

My DS in year 6 hasn't done any extra revision at home, and to be perfectly honest, it never even occurred to me to buy revision guides I've told him just to do his best and that's enough. He's in greater depth for all subjects, but even if he wasn't I wouldn't have pestered him at home. All they do at school is practice SATS and teach towards the exams.

It depends on the child too. Both mine find anything with words very easy everything just flows and they exceed with zero input from us so no need for us to do anything on that front. They are both slower at maths and need someone to calmly explain stuff over and over again until it “clicks”. If I had done that with dd1 she would have got better sats. Now she’s older her confidence has grown and maths improved but due to original setting is “stuck” in a lower maths set then she should be. Frankly wish I had ignored the school telling me the SATS didn’t matter - they did.

Lots of insights, thank you!

Just to be clear, dd is doing all her homework (all SATs revision) and has done some of revision books. And is on track for greater depth for everything. It’s the endless pressuring I refuse to subscribe to. School has become completely joyless and SATs in combination with generally how horrible Y6 girls can be has made for a miserable end to primary school.

One of her potential schools sets on SATs initially but then rearranged as appropriate. I have already had this conversation with them. The school she wants to go to doesn’t set at all until Y8.

Agree hot housing not good of course but between that and doing nothing there is a middle ground. Secondary also told us they move pupils when setted but anecdotally doesn’t seem to happen much if at all so wouldn’t rely on that reassurance

My DD is in Year 7 now at a school which sets the children in almost every subject from the second half of the first term in Year 7 onwards - based on KS2 results. There can be movement so I understand it between sets following each in-year assessment, but I don't think there has been much (if any) movement yet following the initial sets in October last year.

She went to a state primary school which is pretty results focussed & has a reputation for being that way.

The school didn't give any SATs-related homework in Year 6 - no past papers, no revision. In the Easter holidays before SATs, I felt as though we should be doing something particularly as I knew the secondary where she would be going streams so early in Year 7. It feels not right for GCSE targets to be set so early in a child's education - but if that is the system we are working within, I didn't want to risk her being disadvantaged right from the start of secondary.

At DD's secondary, all kids are put on a flight path based on the SATs. I only knew about such 'flight paths' from reading about them on MN. Other secondaries don't have this approach & it was not mentioned in the school's open day. It just becomes apparent once Year 7 kicks off and by then it feels a bit too late as SATs are done. It feels as though the dice have already been cast. Don't get me wrong, I am not agreeing with this system, but am just explaining how it can feel from a parental perspective within a school which uses the flight path approach. It will be interesting to see how much movement there is within the sets as DD progresses up the school.

Anyway, like I said, DD's primary did not set any SATs-related homework. Around Easter time, I bought some past papers from Amazon and gave them to DD to practise at home. She did ok with the past papers - but there were some gaps in her knowledge of SPaG terminology - active/passive voice I remember being one.

She ended up with 120, 120 & 115 in her SATs. She is in the top set of all her subjects at secondary. And rightly or wrongly, I kind of see her SATs scores as providing a bit of a cushion from being moved down a set in case she has a poor mark in one of her in-Year assessments. Those SATs have set her flight path and the secondary now have targets based on those. It's a weird system - but it's the system we have (until the DfE change the goalposts again).

Well then basically DD1 is screwed. She's a bright kid, not top of the class but certainly a lot better than her current results are showing. The school have done practically nothing to help her with her issues and although they send her to an extra English class at lunchtime, they woefully neglect the slower kids in the classroom, especially with maths. She was doing really well up till year 5, storming along. And now because her issues have slowed her right down the path she'll be set on for the rest of her education will be a lower one with little hope of movement. Fabulous.

Rockbird - not every secondary uses the same approach to setting/streaming very early on based on KS2 results. I was describing DD's school's approach but they are not all like that. Our local secondary for instance doesn't set at all - for any subject.

One of the issues I have with secondaries in our area is that their approach to streaming/setting is not very clear or transparent. I went to open days for about 8 different schools and none of them mentioned it. When I went back to see a couple of schools that we liked and I asked some more focussed questions about their approach to streaming, it felt like pulling teeth. It only really became clearer when DD started bringing letters home in the first term referring to flight paths. I had put 2 & 2 together beforehand based on what I had read on MN to be honest. If I had had to rely only on the school's info, I would have been in the dark.

Parental support outside of school is a really significant component of how children progress across all abilities.

It is but that doesn't mean that children have to be doing endless SATs preparation at home for the Yr 6. SATs. I refused to let my DCs do the work from the books that the school sent home as they requested an hour a day. Instead my DCs did 20 minutes once a week because that was what they felt they were comfortable with.

As the mother of a child in Y7 who didn't receive all her SATS results (neither did the rest of her cohort), what I would say is that if and when you have concerns about how the secondary school is using 'flight paths' and the like, THEN go in and speak to the relevant people which will likely involve escalating it to the SLT.

The children in my child's cohort have gone to half a dozen or more different schools and, from what I understand, they all give different weighting to SATS/CATS/teacher assessment and all 'set' in different ways.

My child didn't receive her maths SATS result for example. Her teacher assessment was 'exceeding' and I assume that her CATS tests went well as she was placed in the top group when they set after half term.

We haven't had parents evening yet nor been told anything about 'flight paths' but the written progress reports sent home at the end of the autumn and spring term indicate that she is doing very well indeed.

If the absence of SATS data does seem to be negatively impacting on her education, I will address it then.

Ps we did nothing to do with the SATS outside school, thank goodness.

Why were the results not reported?

Is that relevant to this thread?

Well, yes. The results have to be reported - they're statutory. Whatever the situation with your dd, it's obviously an extreme occurrence and therefore not really representative of the thousands of children who will have their results reported this year.

DD didn't do any work outside school for her SATs last year, and the school prepared her well. She did very well, with scores which reflected her actual ability in the relevent subjects, although she's doing slightly better in maths in secondary school, which I think reflects teaching methods which suit her better.

At home, we supported her education in other ways - pointing her in the direction of good books, taking her to fun science workshops, discussing ideas and current events, going to museums and theatres and galleries and concerts, giving her sketchbooks and a sewing kit. I'm lucky because her school is good and we live in a place with lots of good free and low-cost activities for children.

Yes we do all that I am certainly not one for workbooks etc but for my dd extra help in maths before sats would have made a difference. Our secondary same as Melting set on SATS from day 1 flight paths etc.

My reason for offering my experience on this thread was to inject a bit of realism into the hyperbole about how 'flight paths' and the like in secondary are reliant on SATS results.

Honestly, if anyone has concerns about their child being placed in an incorrect 'set' or having an inaccurate 'flight path', go and speak to the school.

4strings, if your dd is on track for greater depth in all subject, it's really no point doing any sats work. It's basic level of work they are testing.
Multiple children has scored 100% on the mock Sats which used last years paper at my ds's school, apart from reading test.

Ofsted's latest views on 'flight paths' www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/3538779-Flight-paths-in-secondary-are-nonsense-and-demotivating-for-pupils-SAY-OFSTED

I think the point is that there is no standard approach taken by secondaries. The OP said that the school where her DD would like to go doesn't set until Year 8? Other schools take different approaches & place a different emphasis on SATs results. So for what one poster is 'hyperbole' is another person's reality. No-one on the thread has expressed a love of flight paths or GCSE targets set according to SATs.

Thing is no matter what we may all feel (SATS are awful etc) that is the system we have and are stuck with unless we go private so as parents you obliged to work with what there is

Ok, to those pointing out about SATS being used as the external measure of the value a school adds - talking to DH, in his school, progress against SATS as a baseline is only one of many ways they measure and track progress internally. In his subject, they use the CAT tests and their own subject-specific assessment much more, and he isn’t personally measured or pressurised in any way about what extent he has improved pupils’ progress against SATS. Setting is done in Y8 in some subjects but based on internal data not SATS. CATS are used in Y7 to ensure each class is mixed ability.

So, SATS really don’t make much difference - in his school - to the way they treat pupils, even if they are used as the external measure. So whether or not DD does well in her SATS doesn’t seem to me to matter that much at all, for her on an individual level.

The government's 'progress 8' measure compares SATS scores with GCSE outcomes for each child to 'measure progress'. Because of this, SATS scores must be used to generate this data (if the scores are available, of course).

But of course there are many other ways to assess how children are doing and change their set/give them extra support/increase the challenge of work etc. Which seems to be what my child's school has done.

And it is hyperbole to suggest that children are 'screwed' because their parents/carers didn't do additional revision for the SATS, or a child didn't perform well in them or even just one subject.

From what parents of older children have told me, being given high 'targets' based on good SATS results has resulted in them being told that they're 'not on track' throughout secondary, which seems to be completely demotivating for the children and anxiety-provoking for the parents.