Any primary teachers/Sencos out there to advise please?

[RageAgainstTheVendingMachine]

Good evening

I do hope I am posting in the right place. I am hoping that one of you lovely lot out there could advise.

I will be returning to the UK with two children in the Summer, aged 6 and 8. They are due to go into years 1 and year 4 based on age.
The oldest is bilingual but will not need an in-class translator although she will be one year behind, has not yet done multiplication or division, has learnt a different style of cursive writing and will have a language deficit with regard to written English (oral/aural is fine but as English is not phonetic and they have spent the last two years in a German school there will be spelling issues). She can read but I do not know what her reading age is.

Questions: Will the school do bombardment-type testing (I think it used to be CAT testing? to see where she's at or would I need to request it? If the LEA would have provided language support had she only spoken German, would they still be prepared to offer such a person for literacy support or will the Senco arrange that? Will she be forced to unlearn European cursive writing and have to learn British cursive? Finally, will they be able to test her current reading age for me?

My youngest would have been starting German school this September. He will be a year behind, only speaks English, is verbal but lags behind in other areas - in particular, his ability to hold a pen and write (he knows his letters but cannot write them at all well, never writes in lower case and only writes his name in capitals with various sizing. No emergent writing. Can sometimes tell you cvc words but not yet reading).
He also has massive sensory issues and anxiety issues which meant that after 18 months in Kindergarten he started refusing to go/had issues there including picking up the language. Several red flags for ASD with a PDA profile but no diagnosis yet.

Questions: Is there any way that I can appeal to the LEA or School directly for him to start Reception as opposed to year 1? He will be 6 this June. Will the school allow a part-time timetable at first given his anxieties? (Would your school do this/how would it be organised?)
Do parents have the right to request an ILP/IEP assessment from the off or can this referral only come via the class teacher to the Senco?
Will there be access to an Ed Psych? If anxiety is going to cause issues with attendance and punctuality, can a home-school liaison/ewo support me or should I go directly to social services?

Sorry for all the questions. I have been out of the loop for 12 years and basically need a how-to guide for accessing support for my kids. I cannot at the moment afford private diagnoses or therapies.
I could off-roll and home school but this would be my very last solution as I am secondary-trained not primary.

So...if you were the Senco or Class teacher what would you be able to do for me in September and would you be prepared to meet a new parent pre term starting/quick meeting on the inset day or would that be totally out the question? Should I contact the school directly to set up such a meeting or will I be automatically labelled as 'that parent'?
School admission/transfer cannot be done until mid-June for a September start and we will not be in the UK until mid August.
Term starts 3rd September.

What would your advice be with regard to communicating any/all of the above and first steps to getting a diagnosis for the youngest?
Or do I just let the Senco/teacher lead and assume they will pick up on issues from the first day?

Many thanks in advance

Term starts 2nd September not 3rd

Bump

You might get more responses on the primary education boards. I don't have any personal experience but did not want to not answer at all.

Do you know where you are moving to and has the school you want got places? In my area there is a waiting list for all the local schools and parents have to go to appeal to get in.

If you know the school and there are places I would organise a meeting to discuss your individual circumstances.

Each school will assess in different way on arrival.

Have you considered starting the diagnosis process? For my ds it took a couple of years.

Hi Lori

Thanks - I will ask MNHQ to move it. Yes, school we are going to has places but because of the ''attend within 15 days of acceptance rule'' and the fact we do not need the place until September, the forms will not be dealt with until mid-June.
When they get back to me end of June/start of July, I am then in a position to set up a meeting with the school but if it was due to take place before 2nd September it would either need to be a home visit or done on the inset day - I have no right to ask any staff member to voluntarily give up holiday time to talk to me and the inset days will be for training and have a tight agenda but potentially, if the head or Senco were in school the last week of the holidays anyway, maybe they could carve out half an hour?
I have been asking all about the diagnosis process on here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/special_needs_education/3554780-If-your-ASD-child-got-a-diagnosis
but am a little unsure as to the order of approach. I will move the thread and hope to get more responses.
Thank you for replying - when you got a diagnosis for your DS did you self-refer to the paed/health authority or were you backed by the school or did you go private? Thanks in advance x

We're just moving this over to primary education for the OP.

Thank you Lily

I'm sure the school your children are going to will be able to answer all your questions - certainly in my school they would have immediate SENCo involvement.
If your youngest is going to be 6 in June, and you're coming to an English school, he'll be going into year 2 in September. It is, in my experience, difficult to back-year children but would depend on your school / local authority etc.
Good luck with the move!

Hi. This is my experience to some of your questions.

We do not offer translator like support for pupils with EAL.
If a pupil was writing cursively neatly we would not make them change (What is the difference between European and British cursive writing if you don't mind me asking?)
I would informally assess reading level but would wait until whole school assessments to assess formally with the rest of the class.

We do not allow pupils to be held back a year but I do know other schools in the area that allow this.
We would not allow a part time time table unless you had an educational statement that dictated it e.g. timetable shared between a special school and mainstream school (we have done this in the past)
We do take requests for IEP assessments from parents but would prioritise in terms of need, so if others were deemed as more needy they would be assessed 1st same with access to the Ed Psych.
Yes you would have access to a home school support officer.

As a class teacher I would be happy to meet you before September as long as it was term time and not during an INSET. Passing on all the info above would be very helpful I wouldn't just wait for the teacher or SENCO to just pick this up.
Just be warned though depending on the experience of the teacher / school this might be a very overwhelming 1st time conversation.
Hope you get the help you and Your DC need

I teach Year 6. We wouldn't do any testing, just informally assess what level he /she is at. I can't speak for other schools but we wouldn't expect a child to change their handwriting script. The Senco can test for reading age.

From what you say the eldest doesn't have any SEN (English as an additional language isn't considered SEN) so in my area it would be unlikely there would be access to an Educational Psychologist or SEN support.
It would be also be unheard of in my area for a child to have an in class translator (even if the child had no English).

"Will she be forced to unlearn European cursive writing and have to learn British cursive?" There isn't a standard style of writing used in English schools so it will depend upon the school.
"Finally, will they be able to test her current reading age for me?" Again this will depend on individual schools. We assess reading and comprehension age of all children new to the school but it isn't standard.

"Is there any way that I can appeal to the LEA or School directly for him to start Reception as opposed to year 1? He will be 6 this June. " I'm a little confused. Your youngest will be six in June but you aren't returning to the U.K. until August ...is that correct? In which case your child would begin Y2 in September not Y1 (if England) and it would be highly unlikely that they could be placed in reception if you are looking at state maintained schools. You may find independent schools would consider this option.

Thank you for all your help

Just be warned though depending on the experience of the teacher / school this might be a very overwhelming 1st time conversation.
For me or for them?

The school itself had mentioned that EAL services had come in once a week for another German boy (but this conversation was last time we had considered a move so that service may have been cut since then).
The eldest should be able to catch up I think - it will only be the maths she has not covered yet and her written English which will need help but hopefully she can pick it up. She has no SN (sometimes I think she masks at school and offloads at home but that's another thread).
She would have been going into year 3 in Germany.
(In Germany primary is years 1-4 then secondary 5-10, they end up in year 10 doing the gcse equivalent but is more like AS level. They start later here but overtake in the Unterstufe 5-7).

I cannot afford independent schooling and yes, son will be year 2, I included Reception as age 5 but my eldest was 4 when she went, I have forgotten.

Essentially he is going to be 2 years behind in the English school system (and behind further as he cannot yet read or write). He was due to start year 1 in Germany in September and they do their printing of letters, emergent writing and beginning to read in year 1 here. So going into year 2 in the UK without any of the Reception/year 1 early learning goals is going to be an uphill struggle. Does anyone here have experience of any other children from other countries transferring who were in the same position and how did your school approach it?
Thanks again Much appreciated x

Oh, I forgot - someone asked me about cursive - I looked at google images and maybe they are not so different after all - the German Schönschreibschrift is very loopy compared with the writing I used to see in the UK (but I taught from key stage 3 by which point all kids' writing is no longer uniform anyway).

Just to say I met with the SENCo of 4 different schools prior to my ds getting a place at any of them. They were all happy to meet with me to discuss what their school could offer my ds.

It might be worth contacting the school and explaining the situation and they might come up with a way to meet / talk on the phone / email etc so a plan is in place for your youngest to start. A good school will want to be prepared.

With respect to my ds when he was little I self referred to SALT then took him myself to the GP who referred him to paediatrician when he was older. She referred him back to SALT and to OT. School referred to Ed Psych and Advisory Teacher. We privately got a dyslexia assessment.

Senco here.
If the school you have chosen is able to offer places for you to start in September even though you will. It be in the UK until August that Jan most unusual. I know in our LA that would not be the case. You need to be living in the UK first.
However, regarding your youngest, I would arrange to meet the SENCO during the first week, most definitely not on the first day. I would also arrange for him to start part time only, perhaps a couple of hours each morning, and also look at him starting in Year 1. We have some children who either repeated their Reception year or started when they were 5 so already have some Y1 children who are a year older than the other Y1s.
We would not complete any referrals to paediatrics initially as we would want to be sure what route to take, if indeed any external agencies were necessary. The state of SEN funding in the UK is now pretty dire, it can take months if not years to get EP involvement and any sort of ASD diagnosis- I have children at my school who have been waiting 18 months for one. However, if your child has clear SEN, (as identified by outside agencies) this is usually much quicker.
With regards to assessing, this would be done on an informal basis, through observation mainly. Reading ability would be assessed, as would basic maths skills. In Y4, a child would be expected to be able to add, subtract, divide and multiply, plus know all their multiplication tables off by heart. These are things you could be practicing with your eldest now in preparation.

Oh and I meant to add, we have language support for asylum seekers only at the moment. Some LAs have no language support, some schools but in their own. If your children are bilingual I would ensure you immerse them in written and spoken English now in preparation for when they start school.

If the school you have chosen is able to offer places for you to start in September even though you will. It be in the UK until August that Jan most unusual. I know in our LA that would not be the case. You need to be living in the UK first.

Hello lovely Senco, thank you for helping me.
I assume that says it is unusual for a place to be offered for September when not already living in the UK?
I rang admissions a fortnight ago and was told to send a Transfer Form to them mid June (this form is usually used for in year transfers between schools but they advised the German Primary to fill in anyway).
I will be returning to my old house but you are quite right - I will not be resident until mid August. Admissions were told this on the phone and knew I was ringing them from Germany. Do you think they made a mistake? Should I ring them back or just see what happens with the application? They said June not July as in July they would be powering down for the end of term.
To be honest, it does not/would not make a huge difference to me if my kids did not have a September start but began after October half-term or even January - as this would mean they had time to settle first. But I assumed it would be an easier social transition and easier for the school if they began at the same time as their peers.

I have just looked it up and the year 2 teacher for that school is the actual Senco, so I assume she would pick up problems straight away.
(That shows how out the loop I am as I didn't realize the Sencos had a full timetable of teaching responsibility).

I will have to start times tables with the oldest. They would have been doing multiplication/division in September. I will try and do some rote learning. That makes sense, thank you. She is bilingual but her English is fluent - it will only show as a deficit in her spelling.

I would also arrange for him to start part time only, perhaps a couple of hours each morning, and also look at him starting in Year 1. We have some children who either repeated their Reception year or started when they were 5 so already have some Y1 children who are a year older than the other Y1s.

Ooh, this gives me hope. Thank you for that.

It can take months if not years to get EP involvement and any sort of ASD diagnosis

Yes, so I am beginning to understand - another poster mentioned a 2 year waiting list for a paediatrician.

Older Child:
Will the school do bombardment-type testing (I think it used to be CAT testing? to see where she's at or would I need to request it?
CT will informally assess from Day 1, probably formally assess later in the term. If either throws up an issue they will adjust teaching and refer to Senco if necessary.

If the LEA would have provided language support had she only spoken German, would they still be prepared to offer such a person for literacy support or will the Senco arrange that?
Unlikely that there will be any additional support, unless it becomes apparent she is not picking up English due to a language difficulty. Maybe some additional English sessions if the school run them anyway. If you are a Service family, or she is fostered, adopted or entitled to free school meals, the school can claim additional Pupil Premium funding which they could use for additional support.

Will she be forced to unlearn European cursive writing and have to learn British cursive?
No, unless punctuation or mathematical symbols are different.

Finally, will they be able to test her current reading age for me?
They may test anyway. If they don't, they are unlikely to test her for you. You may only be told whether or not she is on track/ at age-related expectations - since levels were abolished, schools have their own methods of recording progress and attainment mid-key stage.

Younger child:
Is there any way that I can appeal to the LEA or School directly for him to start Reception as opposed to year 1?
He will go into Year 2. Make sure you have applied for the right year-group as it may make a difference as to whether he gets a place as there are class number limits I’m key stage 1.

Will the school allow a part-time timetable at first given his anxieties?
Discuss with Senco and headteacher. Expect them to say try full time first, unless you have medical or kindergarten evidence to support that he would struggle.

Do parents have the right to request an ILP/IEP assessment from the off or can this referral only come via the class teacher to the Senco?
Schools and/ or Parents can apply to the Local Authority for an Education Health and Care Plan (which have replaced Statements) Assessment, but need strong evidence of needs and interventions tried to back this up, and the application to be assessed can be refused.

Will there be access to an Ed Psych?
Schools can access EPs but may have to buy this in so unlikely until they have seen for themselves that they need additional advice. EP assessment is part of the EHCP assessment process. If you arrange a private assessment, the findings may or may not be accepted by the school.

If anxiety is going to cause issues with attendance and punctuality, can a home-school liaison/ewo support me or should I go directly to social services?
Attendance is a hot topic at present and schools have to show they have acted when it reaches certain levels. Poor attendance is a red flag to there being other issues in the home, so work with the school, meet with them and try to find solutions together, as failure to engage is another red flag.

So...if you were the Senco or Class teacher what would you be able to do for me in September and would you be prepared to meet a new parent pre term starting/quick meeting on the inset day or would that be totally out the question?
Should I contact the school directly to set up such a meeting or will I be automatically labelled as 'that parent'?
What would your advice be with regard to communicating any/all of the above and first steps to getting a diagnosis for the youngest?
Or do I just let the Senco/teacher lead and assume they will pick up on issues from the first day?

Apart from making the class teacher aware of the language issues, your older child should be able to just start school. I'd introduce yourself to the class teacher on drop off or pick up and have a quick Is-everything-going-ok chat in the first week, and tackle any issues if they arrive.

With the younger child, I would make an appointment to meet with or have a telephone conversation with the Senco to discuss his needs, as soon as you are allocated the school place. Bring or send (translated copies of) any relevant medical or kindergarten reports. Flag up the anxiety and possible attendance issues, and whether or not to start full time.

Thanks apple Thanks soon2b60

I have children at my school who have been waiting 18 months for one

What is happening with these kiddies/how is the class teacher, and indeed yourself, coping? Are they having meltdowns every day or refusing to attend or are they spending most of the timetable outside the classroom or is the latter not a possibility? (if Sencos are teaching and budget/resources are scarce, I assume there are no meltdown/sensory adapted/safe spaces anymore or SEN/TA/ASD-ADHD 'bases' where kids can go. Or does it depend on the school?
What are your experiences, if you don't mind me asking?
And if you have a child the school clearly cannot meet the needs of, is the Mum just called in every day, are they excluded ad infinitum or is there any kind of LEA fast tracking for special school or mainstream with ASD base (I do know of one such school with specialist ASD base but totally oversubscribed, only takes 13 kids, need an EHCP).
Will there be pressure placed on me to off-roll and home educate? Will the LEA essentially try to wash their hands of us?