Any teachers? Class size difference- different enough?

[Litttlepinkegg]

Dd current school class size 31 (22 are boys) busy noisy- dd sometimes says she can’t concentrate because of the ‘noisy boys’.
Potential new school dd would be 23 child in class genders more even mixed.
As a teacher could I have your thoughts on the current vs new please?

Or parents view welcome too- the other parents in current very relaxed about class size/mix

Smaller class = more class teacher time let pupil. And probability of quieter environment.
Can also mean more limited choice of friendship group possibilities.

23 is a nice size in my experience though.

I actually like 24. Is this a state school? If it is, the budgets work better based on 30 in a class. 24 is very expensive as 1/5 of the budget is effectively missing. What is the PAN and will the class stay at 23?

Your existing teacher is poor if the class is noisy. I visit my school regularly as a Governor and we don’t have this disruption in classes. Every child can work.

I would move if your existing school won’t deal with the issues. However check the finance of where you are going if it’s state.,

Is the 24 likely to stay at 24? DD2's reception class was that number, while the other school in catchment was full at 30 (both are equally good - one recruits very aggressively and is a primary versus us being infants - hence the difference in numbers) - and is now up to 28 I think it is after a year because of new admissions to the school - it's changed the dynamic a lot (for the better in our case but it could always have gone either way).

Boy heavy doesn't worry me in itself - DD1's year group is very boy heavy and actually it's worked to her advantage as they don't stand for her nonsense when she starts being melodramatic, and she does get on really well with the boys (god help me when they're all teenagers together though)

How old is your dd?

22 boys is alot. 31 is a big class. It does make a difference.

As a teacher, teaching 23 children is far far easier than 31. You can spend far more time with each child and there is likely to be less disruptive pupils. However, it is also likely to be less resourced in terms of TAs etc. However, if it was my child, I would always want them to be in a smaller class.

24 is a nice size, easily divided into groups of 3, 4, 6, 8. Also means more space, often a calmer, quieter atmosphere. Children seem to like it too.

I think it depends more on the individual children than the class size. DS1's class was the same, 31 and very boy heavy but it was a great class. So I wouldn't move her for class sizes alone unless there are other issues with the current school or other reasons that the new school would be better. Does she want to move?

Small classes like 24 would always be preferable but there is a need for realism. Based on costing models you need 24 to 25 pupils in a class to get the funding necessary to support one class with one school teacher.
Realistically if schools are running classes of 24 the probability is that the school is running a deficit budget overall for the school.

The smaller school doesn’t have published financial data on the council website like current school would there be any way to find out the financial situation if not through council?

I think it’s more about teacher skill and ratios than sexes. My sons class is 3/16 girls. The children are all impeccably behaved, all get on well together and, are all progressing very well. There are two teachers and one TA all very experienced and highly skilled. I doubt it would make any difference if the sex imbalance was the other way.

Interesting. I had assumed there might be some articles on boy heavy years but there is nothing. A couple of teacher friends have winced ‘poor teacher’ when I’ve told them about the mix and the acting head described it as the school’s most challenging year. So difficult as dd seems settled and generally things are that bad so do I rock the boat for potentially better or accept ok?

I think it’s a bit mean to label them as noisy because they’re boys. A class of 31 is noisy but the teacher should be able to keep it calmer.

My ds used to be in a school with 23 kids. It was much much better but we moved. It’s the one thing I miss!

Bump

If the school does not publish its budget, as you are not yet a parent, you cannot really find out. The governing body will approve the budget but if there are 23 children in every year group, it may be short of money. If it’s just one class of 23 and the rest are 30, I would not worry.

How old is DD? Are there any other advantages / disadvantages to the other school or is it literally just about class size?

sculpin
Current school is ‘outstanding’ but hasn’t been inspected in years I’d suspect it will go down. Results declining and waiting on new head no head in place last 18 months.

‘Potential new school’ recent ‘good’ Osted in last 6 months. Results higher than current school.

It's really hard OP. I understand you want the best for DD. From the info you've given, it sounds like the new school may be better, but perhaps not much better, so is it worth uprooting her? I think my answer would depend on how old she is. If she's very young (age 5 or 6) then it may be worth it, whereas if she's 10 or 11 then probably not. If she's somewhere in between it's your call!

Is this a Reception class and if so, is PAN 23? Or is the 23 the other half of a year group of 45, which then becomes a joint year 1 and 2, 3 classes of 30?

New school year 1 classes are 2x22 even mix of boys/girls.
Current school year 1 are 2x classes are 31 both have 22 boys in

2 classes of 22 is not sustainable. Over two year groups they have 88 children. This is 3 classes. If they don’t do this, they must be a rich school or are mis-managing their budget.

Noisy can be a matter of perception though- lots of group work, collaborative learning, etc in a class of 31 will make a certain amount of noise. Do you know if it’s that kind of purposeful noise (which can sometimes be helped by carpet), or is it uncontrolled noise- shouting out inappropriately and so on, which the teacher should be able to manage (although that can depend on specific children’s needs to some extent).

One of our local (and very successful schools) has an official PAN of only 25 and they manage their budget in a way that seems sustainably.

The new school is an academy school. I would say not all years class size of 22 -foundation is smaller, but from year 3 seems larger class sizes so maybe overall it evens out?
I just get much better vibes from the new one tbh the kids seem more engaged, interested. Dd loved visiting the new one too so think we are just going to go for it.

Applied for transfer now