Bright child struggling at school

[Randommother]

Hi, been lurking for a while, but this is my first post. I'm after some guidance is anyone can help..

DS (8) is a bright kid, but he's struggling at school. He's been struggling ever since he started. He didn't settle well in reception, and cried every morning (this went on til yr 3). In yr 1 I was told his reading was below expected standard, in yr 2 his teacher regularly kept him in at break time to finish work, and in her words he was easily distracted and didn't try hard enough. I couldn't get him to do homework at home either as he would get too worked up and upset. In yr 3 he was falling further behind so I got a tutor in to help with homework, and we discussed (and dismissed) dyslexia with the school. He's now in yr 4 and the problem is getting worse. He's bright, when you talk to him he's really switched on and has a great vocabulary, but he just can't seem to apply himself in a school environment.

At our last parents evening his teacher said she was very concerned with his lack of effort so we had a separate meeting to discuss in depth what to do next. The school are finally agreeing with me that there is an issue, but we don't know what it is, having already ruled out dyslexia. They don't have any support they can give, and I'm really not sure what to do next! I've taken him to the doctor to see if we can get a referal to have him assessed (I'm not sure what for, I just need someone to tell me what's wrong and how to support him) I'm waiting to hear back from this. Today his teacher spoke to me in the playground to say that his music teacher (he has a separate guitar lesson once a week) has also raised concerns about his lack of concentration and lack of effort.

I really don't know what to do here, has anyone been through similar and have any suggestions on how I can help him?

It's not a case of not being top of the class, school raised concerns with me as he can't keep up with the class and is getting further and further behind. They don't have the resources anymore to support him (no access to an educational psychologist for example). The school Senco is involved, but as she's also a teacher in one if the other classes I haven't spoken directly with her, just via my son's teacher. She was supposed to attend the meeting we had recently, but wasn't able to make it.

Get the ears and the eyes tested to rule out any issues that could be impacting on his learning.
Then look up Ed Psychs; they will do a full battery of testing to assess from IQ to achievement and from there, will tease out any issues or red flags. From there, you can get more specialised consultants.

It really sounds like he could have ADHD. Medication for ADHD has transformed my child's time at school and they are now thriving compared to a few years ago where they needed a 1:1 and I was constantly in school working out why a bright child was not achieving anything, except low self esteem etc.

Just to be clear, I've raised this with the school since yr 2, but it's only at his last parents evening (now yr 4) that they've said they think there is an underlying issue here.

My ds has always been a difficult child, refered to be tested at early age but never got any diagnosis. Always kept in to finish work during breaks because he simply daydream and didn't concentrate.
But I think it got better with his age/maturity. He's got below average for effort in yr3. He was quite shocked. Then, something changed, and it's not the same anymore few years later, still not perfect though.

You really need a meeting with the SENCo in person. I would phone school and insist on rescheduling the one she was supposed to attend and didn't.

to not eat properly with a knife and fork at 8 years old

Get him a set of these to try, the handles are shaped to allow a correct grip and much better control.

www.nrshealthcare.co.uk/eating-drinking-aids/cutlery-aids/kura-care-childrens-cutlery-set?fee=19&fep=613&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhPvHxqOQ4QIVyrvtCh0pfgFiEAQYASABEgIB8fD_BwE

www.completecareshop.co.uk/eating-aids/junior-caring-cutlery/junior-caring-cutlery-full-set

Unfortunately, some schools are a LOT better than others at identifying issues and providing interventions.

we discussed (and dismissed) dyslexia with the school
Schools cannot diagnose, they were wrong to do this irrespective of which condition you'd raised with them.

Ask school to put their concerns in writing, can't keep up, lack of concentration and their perceived lack of effort on his part for starters.

Then look for a multidisciplinary team to carry out assessments, usually Paed, OT, Ed Psych and SLT.

Your GP should be able to help with both an NHS referral which has often very long waiting-lists and suggestions for private diagnosis.
Go on your own, explain your observations and school's observations.

This explains the diagnostic pathway for autism - I'm NOT suggesting he has it, just linking it as an overview of the diagnostic process in general to give you some idea.
www.autism.org.uk/about/diagnosis/children.aspx

Senco "was supposed to attend the meeting we had recently, but wasn't able to make it."

So start there.

Get yourself onto the SN boards because there are very good people with a wealth of experience, who can explain to you how to start fighting.

you really need to be a bit more savvy and organised and realise that these people are not your friends and the only person fighting for your son, him being your main priority, is you!! you and only you.

Start getting some folders and some new pads and get organised you need to address/attack everything and you will be juggling lots of different balls and you need to get used to this.

It involves hard work but I really think it's worth it.

Put everything down in writing. everything you can remember so far. all dates and then cut-and-paste certain bits, email it to one person to certain bits.

And to another person, the boys that relate to them.

stop doing so many phone calls, do as much of it in email, as you then you have a paper trail, which cannot be disputed.

Email and then follow up with a phone call : have you received the email, how long will it take for you to respond and then give it a few days or a week and follow up again and chase and chase and chase and chase and chase and this is what you have to do to every single person in the chain.

You email the teacher, everything you've told us, put writing.

And ask her to confirm the concerns she's already verbalised to you.

She Won't want to put it in writing but you're going to force her to!!

Ask for a teacher meeting ASAP.

Insist on senco meeting being rescheduled.

go to a meeting and take somebody else with you because they don't like that, once after many fruitless meetings, without notice, I took my mum! The dynamics changed immediately!!

because then there is a witness and ask your friend to take minutes

and ask for a meeting with the Senco in writing and suggest a date and demand it within a certain amount of time.

And go back to the GP and asked for a referral to the paed and also camhs.

Contact all helplines dyspraxia or the dyslexia or the ASD or ADHD.

speak to NAS and get them to help you and support you.

there's lots of very good and phone lines and charities , people who have had experience of the whole system and they can I help you and advise you.

you need a diagnosis on the NHS.

And a nhs diagnosis is worth more than any other private diagnosis, but it takes ages,

So, in the meantime if you do have enough money I would pay for a private diagnosis or a private EP assessment.

try and find out who the school uses for an EP try and contact them to see you privately, or ask who they recommend.

I deliberately got a private report done by somebody I knew the NHS Paed respected. This helped me!!

the school won't do anything unless you push push push.

the school keep telling you they don't have the money for this .... they've got a long list and there is no need for him to see an EP ...... they don't want to do this! you have to make it happen!

Often they won't even start the referral to the EP until you've got a nhs diagnosis so you need to attack this from all sides, from all different areas.

That's my experience I hope that's helpful to you.

Get this thread moved to the SN section.

Many LA services such as the Educational Pdychologists are bought in (purchased) by schools. All schools have access to them. Your school is choosing not to buy the service. Therefore they have no highly qualified expertise for their SEN children. That’s why they don’t know anything! SENDcos will not have the expertise or training to know what to advise. They simply do not see enough children either.

I would urgently contact your local authority and speak to the Ed Psych office. They will have Ed psychs. This won’t get you one to see your DS but you should be able to counter the school’s argument. They may also point you in the right direction for getting a private one.

Schools should not push this onto parents. What would happen if you were very poor? You wouldn’t have the money for private evaluation! It’s a total disgrace!

My DS had a similar problem. A behavioural optometrist spotted that his eyes wondered when trying to read so he found it extremely difficult to focus on a page.

Worth investigating!

My DS now uses overlays for reading and gets extra time at exams

@Randommother , I too have this problem with my DS. I looked at Inattentive ADHD and like you, I can see the signs in both my DS and me. We're already further down the road, he has had absence seizures ruled out, and we're waiting for our referral to come through, for both of us. I spoke to the GP and asked for one myself, even though he was hesitant.

A good book to have a look at is 'Driven to distraction', the case studies in there were eye opening, and so, so relevant. It also has strategies to deal with it.

Keeping a child in at play time is one of the WORST methods. If they don't get run around time they will find it even harder to concentrate and focus in lessons. Sadly it is also one of the first things they choose as a method of dealing with it.

Referrals can take up to a year in some counties, and even longer in others. Just getting absence seizures ruled out took us 6 months. It's worth finding out who the school uses as education psychologists and see if you can see them privately.

Of course they can use an educational psychologist! They are lying to you. You'll need to get used to professionals doing that I'm afraid.

The school can commission an educational psychologist assessment from your LA. They have to have them.

Contact your local SENDIASS (used to be parent partnership) and ask them for guidance on how to make the school get the Ed Psych in to assess your child.

If you commissioned your own report, it would probably be of better quality and make better recommendations but you would then possibly have to fight to make the school and/or LA accept it. Lots try to refuse to implement recommendations from independent reports.

We had similar problems with DS and got a private educational therapist in. She observed and tested him over 2 days. Her report had a list of strategies for the school and a recommendation that we seek a formal autism diagnosis. She was 100% satisfied that he met the criteria but as another poster said she didn't have the 'power' to diagnose herself.

Hi @Randommother
Any chance you are in London? If so let me know and I can PM you some advice re Educational Psychology practitioners who could do the assessment if you wanted.

I am head of student support for my division at my school so have some experience referring students for testing.

Also, be kind to yourself, we often have children much older than yours who have never been assessed - you have not left it too long!

Sadly often schools 'save' their ed psych space for the children in yr 5 as the plan for secondary.

You need initially to be systematic in ruling things out. Start with hearing and vision.

As an ex paediatric Occupational Therapist who admittedly didn't specialise in mainstream children, a few things stand out.

"Can't use a knife and fork" In what way? Does he have other issues with using tools (pencil/jigsaws) getting dressed.

You talk about him not enjoying board games and making up his own rules, how does he manage with other tasks that require following instructions? Can he sequence complex activities?

Meltdowns about homework. If you sit and help him focus can he manage the work or does he struggle even with support?

Does his attention/concentration change depending on the environment? Is he ok in a quiet room but struggle in a busy classroom? If he's watching tv can he also hold a conversation or does he struggle to split his attention? Is there a pattern to how distractable he is? Maybe better after a pe lesson but poor just before lunch when he's been sitting for a long time?

Unfortunately you do need to be a detective and try and work out what is going on for him to get to the right professional to help him.

MeowCatMeow - I think I may be in the same position you were in a few years ago. I too have a bright child who isn’t achieving at school (besides reading). He has 1-1 support and I’m in the school for meetings so much that the head will probably ask me to start paying rent soon(!). My DS is being investigated by CAMHS - no news yet but I suspect his attention/concentration issues will lead to an ADHD diagnosis. Would you mind telling the the type of issues that your son had and the changes that taking ADHD meds have made to him? Sorry to hinsck your thread OP(!)

*hijack your thread

Babymoma, that's fine I don't mind you hijacking, sounds like we have similar issues, you're just further along than me!

@coconutlatte44 thanks for the offer of help, but I'm not in London.

@2pointfourmonkeys to answer your questions, he is really unproductive when he has a knife and fork, it's like he doesn't know how to get his hands in the right place. He prefers using fingers or just a fork. Getting dressed is generally fine, providing there are no zips or buttons involved, and he hates putting his socks on as he finds it difficult, that one is a daily battle.. He's never been interested in puzzles or writing or drawing. His writhing speed is one if the issues his teacher raised, in her words he'll write a sentence in the time it takes his classmates to write 2 pages. I'm not sure if this is using the pencil or some other issue though.

Following instructions is an interesting one, if I give him instructions one at a time he's fine, if I give him a series of instructions he's likely to get flustered.

Homework = meltdown with or without focused support... I think this maybe partly my lack of patience with it though as he's much better when he works with his tutor than if I try to work with him.

Writing it down like this is a great help as I can see that there are things I just accept as being part of him, that I probably should raise when we get an assessment.

Have you looked at the Dyspraxia Foundation website. It lists expectations by age group which may help you list out and identify his areas of difficulty. Also suggestions for activities which may help his coordination and focus.

Re the issues with instructions, Google 'impaired executive function'. Understanding this can make it a lot easier to manage.

@Randommother based on what you've told me I'd want to rule out some kind of dyspraxia or developmental coordination difficulty (still having issues with zips and buttons plus poor writing speed is a major clue). This is when a child has difficulty sequencing a task, either in their head to produce a plan of how to do the task (unconsciously like we would do) or organising their body to move in the right way. Often working memory is also an issue. Children with such difficulties can easily become overwhelmed and shut down completely.

I would NOT wait for ed psych, they are only going to refer you on if this is the case. You should be able to refer him yourself to your local Paediatric OT service for an assessment. However many services will want to see what has already been tried so i highly recommend requesting an urgent meeting with school (particularly the SENCo) and want to see what they have done already to rule out an underlying issue. I'd be interested to find their evidence of it being a lack of effort issue- eg proof that when they put strategies in place to help him keep on task he is able to achieve. You also need to have evidence of the issues at home, school often don't see the things like eating with fingers or not using buttons as an issue- many families these days just don't prioritise teaching these skills and so kids never learn rather than actually cant.

Whatever happens (and i appreciate this is difficult when you both work full time) you will need to be on top of school. Make them want to get you off their backs. Set time scales for actions, ask for feedback.

The issues you describe above sound like they could be due to dyspraxia, would be worth looking into the possibility.