Sacry induction day yesterday - please calm me down and call me a paranoid snob

[AnneOnymous]

Sorry for the length of this:

We didn't manage to get DS into our first (or any) choice primary. We were allocated a place at our nearest undersubsribed infant school - 40 mins uphill walk or a 15 min bus ride away. Noone I know had even heard of it, let alone knew anything about it, but researched reputation is poor/average. When DH and I visited it we decided to keep DS on waiting list for top choice (will probably take a few years), but felt our allocated school was fine: bright, big, well resourced class-rooms, lots of outside space, children seemed happy. Headmistress didn't present herself that well but their improving ofsted is very old - its clear they'll get a much better one next time around. We knew a lot of the pupils came from the nearby council estate but I wasn't worried by this, figured they'd be some other parents in the same position as us, and feel a good social mix is important. The quality of the teaching seems good and of course the classes aren't overfull.

Anyway, went to the induction afternoon yesterday and I'm getting nervous now....

Positives: DS's teacher is the deputy head, seemed very nice, took a real interest in DS. DS was genuinely excited to be there, couldn't wait to get his uniform on and enjoyed playing inside and out.

Negatives: Half the parents and children hadn't bothered to turn up, about another qaurter seemed to talk all the way through the head's talk, I think they'll only be about 4 girls in DS's class and (and I do hate myself for saying this, hence the name change) I reckon we could well have been the only middle-class family there. Dh noticed one little lad being referred to as "pitbull" by his England kitted dad.

Please tell me I'm being a hideous snob, it won't matter a jot and my beautiful bright precious first born will be just fine, have a great time, will thrive and won't turn into a thug.

hi my son goes to a school like this to

the positives are that the teachers love anyone who is prepared to have an input into the childs education and there is very good pastoral care

the negatives however are

swearing and smoking on playground mos children walk to school themselves so you dont get to met make friends with many parents

in our case we get judged terribly probably as i am judging them to be fair eg my DH wheres a uniform and we were told that they didnt want any baby pigs at this school meaning police !!

you also get a very good education in the social system

He won't turn into a thug. I'm sure of that. And the parents won't be in the classroom. And hopefully a place will come up at the other school. Good luck. You can only do your best.

I went to a school like this, and my dad was uniformed. I didn't turn into a thug, but I quickly learned to deal with thugs.

Ie "you only hate the police because your dad's in prison. probably to get away from you!"

Not nice, I know, but still, provoked etc.

Keep him in the waiting list but give a try to the school you got, you may be surprised and even like the place. If after a year you don't like it, move him. Use that year to research the options.

At the end of the day you need to feel comfortable with your choice, whatever the reasons.

I'm in the same position, sort of...

We didn't get our first choice, but a place at the local, also undersubscribed, infant school.
I have no concerns about the school itself, they have umproved hugely, do loads of extracurricular stuff etc. and seemed very nice.

But then suddenly we were offered a place at the 'fight-to-get-in' school, which is further away (about the same distance as you are from that one). We went to see it, it's far more pressured and academic - high standards in terms of pupils being 'grown up' and a huge proportion of middle class parents. I wasn't sure what to think.

So I took DS to have a surreptitious look at the local one - we stood in the playground at 8.45 the other morning, surrounded by very, very poor looking mums...the kids looked alright, but the mums seemed in general to be either depressed, unhappy, even disturbed...or very scary and dressed in white tracksuits with hair scraped back, shouting at their kids with a cigarette hanging out of their mouths.

I just wanted to get out of there. The parents who I saw at the parents evening were obviously the ones who bothered to turn up - many of them were pretty middle class. But having seen the 'real' story (it does serve a huge and problematic estate) I was really put off, walked away and sent my papers to the other school.

Later reading the ofsted, (they are always out of date) I realised their special educational needs figure was 43% as opposed to 12% at the other school. Which shows what they are contending with - very underpriviledged children who will be hard work for the teachers to cope with, let alone teach...

I still don't know if it was the right decision, it's going to be an effort getting to the other school and I guess we'll be at the lower end of their spectrum. (single mum here!) But I hope we've chosen well.

Just remember that kids whose parrents don't treat them well are more likely to be unhappy, disruptive and possibly unkind to other children. But there will be nice people there too...you should be able to change schools mid year, with any luck, if it proves too awful, as many schools will have spaces come up.

Good luck!

We're likely to be in a similar situation to you next year...very unlikely to get a place at nearest, lovely, state primary as over subscribed. We went and saw, and loved, the alternative - wonderful teachers/head/children - but have been told scary things about the parents, by a few local Mums.

My BF suggested hanging around the school gates at home-time, to see what the reality is - if the parents are swearing and yelling at their kids, or if they seem happy to see them! Thought this was a good idea - not done it yet, but might help you decide?

My first instinct, though, is to agree with 'let him go for a year then re-assess, and research other options during that year'. Hope it works out

Change. Honestly. Ds went to a supposedly 'improving' school in one of the most socially deprived areas of the South West and I got sick of

A) Hearing "shut up you little fker" directed at children outside the school
B) gaggles of vile women (believe me, they were) smoking outside as we waited for school to finish
C) A insipid and lily livered head (whose kids went to school elsewhere)
D) low standards
E) The general ethos

I really think it put ds back a bit. It's not too late, you're not being a snob, don't send him there. Appeal, (I know PLENTY of people who've got into their first choice schools that way) or pay if you can or move but if your instinct is that it's a less than satisfactory school NOW don't wait, do something about it asap.

My 2pworth, feel free to ignore, obv.

I'd try and get into your first choice, tbh. My DSs' school is in quite a mixed area, socially. With DS1 I was new to the game (as it were!) and the area (and the country, for that matter!) and I made a couple of errors such as not nipping 'unsuitable' friendships in the bud. It's going OK now but we were lucky to have a relatively small proportion of chavvy (there, I said it!) parents in DS1's year group, and DS2's peer group are all surprisingly middle class (though, interestingly, the other yr 1 class has got LOADS of women who must have been teenaged mums and it's all fags, low slugs tracksuit bottoms, badly dyed hair and "If youse go near Darrin again I'm goin' to feckin kill ya, girl!" Really!)

What you've said about the school would lead me to research alternatives. I mean, educationally, with you keeping tabs, it probably won't be a disaster at all- but socially an easily led child might be led astray, esp as they get older. It's funny and sad how the 'poor little mite' of 4 or 5 from the 'unfortunate background' becomes the nasty little b of 7 or 8. It's my belief that you'd feel happier about your first choice school so I'd say make the most of what you've got but keep at the other school til a place eventually comes up- and good luck!

Thanks for the input guys. Well, we've pretty much decided we need to get a decent alternative set up at the earliest opportunity. I hate myself for this, because I swear I'm not a snob and would never normally judge anyone on accent/income or address but If I'm honest I will judge someone on their attitudes to education, behaviour and how they raise their kids. I'm also freaking out now at the distance and having to do the school run (with by then a newborn in tow too) reliant on public transport. He's 3rd on the list at our 1st choice, but because it's small (single form entry) a place is unlikely to come up before year 3 when they add 2 extra places. We could switch to the waiting list at our nearest primary, within walking distance - good ofsted, much more mixed social/economic intake, a nice park nearby so lots of scope for socialising on neutral turf and although we'd be 6th on the list, with a 4 form intake we'd have a much higher chance of getting in within the next year or two if not for Sept. I'm also trying to think positive for the interim - DS is likely to enjoy his time and get a good standard of education while he's at his alloted school and who knows the half that didnt turn up to the induction might be a friendlier / more mixed group? Thanks for letting me offload - think I'm feeling a bit too jellyheaded/hormonal to make decisions properly!

Having said that - what is the "normal" turnout for induction? I don't know for sure because I haven't been through it, but I remember friends being shocked that in a new, very middle class estate with brand new schools less than 50% of people turned up for induction sessions - and another friend who was a teacher saying this was normal?!

Of course the ones who turned up are presumably the keenest so it may well be you don't even want to see the rest....

Stealthsquiggle, I'd second that...it was the 'normal-looking' ones who were at the patents induction, the playground was terrifyingly different...

Anne, glad you've found a few other options. We were also 3rd on the list at our 'good' school, and that was after another 2 who were siblings and couldn't get in - basically we were told honestly that we had no chance, so perhaps it was a minor miracle that we did get offered a place, or maybe you might be as lucky as we were. Both of your alternatives sound pretty cool anyway, best of luck!

patents = parents

Message withdrawn

Our children have been at a socially-mixed primary school for some years now. They've found it interesting. My daughter was assaulted when she was about six (another little boy rubbed his wily (fortunately not exposed) against her bottom and said he was shagging her). We've also had a lot of travellers--some of whom were lovely, others of whom were, basically, thieves who stole from the other children and brought in knives and fought rough.

Both children have done well academically and could probably work anywhere.

We're moving our son this year for Y6 because we want him to do common entrance and he needs three years run-in.

I'd say that the most important thing is that the predominant culture is that of hard-working, respectable parents who want to support the school. Is there a PTA? School fair? Do mothers help out in class? Answers to these questions will tell you a lot.

I hope it works out for you. I just wanted to mention that I had to miss DDs induction due to work commitments, and there are probably many others in a similar position in your child's school. It is quite possible that there are lots of nice families with children going to this school, especially if other schools locally are so over-subscribed. The 'rough' ones will hopefully be a minority, and after all, can be found in any school. Good luck, and as long as your child is happy, it will be fine.

"I had to miss DDs induction due to work commitments"

Good point rachmum. I only managed it by getting my parents to take DS#2 to his (but then he did have 2 induction sessions that he had to go to).

OP - It might be that there are lots of parents who work possibly? And it may be that you find in reality the more worrying parents are actually outnumbered by the decent ones who care about their DC's education. If the teacher seems good and your child is enthusiastic I would stick with it and see how it goes - keep the other school as an option though. There are some pretty scary parents at our school but overall we are happy with it.

I had choice between a shiny, middle-classy neat uniformed school and one that sounds like yours. I chose the shiny school. I have now met other parents with kids at the 'other' school and tbh, wish I had sent my (dyslexic) ds to the 'other' school after all because the kids are given so much confidence and self-esteem boosting. They are praised for turning up on time, for wearing the uniform nicely, for managing to sit still for 15 minutes etc etc. They have a lot of fun!

The school my son goes to is poncey, the parents are quite stuck up (well, some are) and the expectation is that all children are academic (my poor ds isn't!). He feels undervalued and a 'failure'. But it is too late to change him now *and other ds thrives at the school).

All I'm saying is, by all means keep on waiting list for the 'dream' school but give this one a go and make the best of it. You might be surprised!

Are you sure "Pitbull" isn't so called in order to build up his confidence because he's afraid of the family cat?

I'd go on what the children seemed like when you visited the school - after all, the parents won't be there every day.