School Governors and poor leadership via Headteacher but know where to go!

[harveydog1]

Hello,

I am really struggling to see the point in the whole process of School governors. We have school governors who always agree with the Headteacher. Recently we lost 7 governors due to a disagreement with the Head and one was forced out. Surely for an independent process the governors are supposed to challenge the head or there is no purpose to the system in place. We have also had no explanation to why 7 governors resigned all at once. I also struggle that the chair and other governors are just parents and have no experience in running a school and that the fact we don't have any say in who is voted chair. In a couple of years time it will be new random inexperienced parents making decisions. I can't see this being an effective way of running our schools.

Our Headteacher doesn't work effectively with parents and fails to communicate effectively on a regular basis. You cannot get passed the governors for any complaints if they are not 'independent' so there is no point in the complaints process and the headteacher knows this. Basically surround yourself with friends. I also can't believe many schools are that different.

So what is the point?? I believe there should be independent professionals making the headteacher accountable and not just random parents. Ofsted and the Education department fail in this whole process too.

May be there should be a new system and a petition to change the whole process should be started??

Not sure what you want here. You are complaining that governors are not "professionals" but of course they are not, profession relate to paid employment and governors are volunteers.

Someone suggested you complain to ofstead but that doesn't seem to be what you want either.

A governing body cannot be all parents. So in that assumption you are wrong. A governing body should have a skills mix where they recruit for specific skill sets. All governors must participate in mandatory training or they lose their position. It's not just a group of parents playing at school management. There is a mix of people from different walks of life

Saying that I have seen governors just agree with the head head and not look at the bigger picture. However, it just feels like you have your bee in your bonnet about everyone, ofstead, school, head, governors, local authority. Is this all over lack of communication? Have you actually put your complaint in writing?

The obvious thing to do OP is to put yourself forward.

The biggest benefit of a governing body is precisely that they aren't paid or employed to do it. Once you are employed your loyalty is with your employer. I was a parent governor and as such I could be truly independent. I didn't have to worry about being dismissed for speaking up. I could ask awkward questions, I could disagree with and challenge the HT.

Some GBs don't do a great job. That doesn't mean that the entire concept is rubbish.

I'm a parent governor. I'm also a qualified primary teacher myself, and since I was elected I've put a LOT of time in on any available training (haven't got onto the LEA run course yet but that's booked next month at the first available session going for it). I think I run the balance between challenging the school leadership but not spilling over into pushing personal agendas or playground gripes (something parent governors get a lot of stick for) fairly well - and Ofsted certainly commented that the quality of governance and leadership in our school was exceptional when they visited last year.

We have it all minuted and highlighted where there's evidence of the governing body challenging and questioning the headteacher very clearly and I've certainly had a couple of "robust" encounters with the head - despite me personally getting on very well with her - the difficult skill for parent governors especially is managing to compartmentalise your life and mentally putting the different "hats" on when you're in a meeting versus when you're at the classroom door doing pickup. It's also having the strength to reinforce to other parents that you're not some kind of one-stop-shop to resolve any parental niggles or gripes - I've had to tell a few friends that no, I can't fix what they're complaining about, but I'll point them towards the process they need to go through and follow if they want it to work its way up to the governing body (which no one has ever done - they just want a bit of a moan really).

It's like anything voluntary-related though really - the people you get coming in will vary in terms of the quality you get - I think we've got a particularly strong governing body but there's a definite element of catchment bias there in that we have very middle-class, professional demographic that the parent governors are coming from anyway.

May I just say a governor cannot be removed for not attending training sessions. It’s not a requirement but it is expected. As volunteers, that’s reasonable.

I have a background in Governor training but I still trained when I became a Governor. Laws change, the Ofsted framework changes, progress data and measurement of progress changes and I need to know about it.

A Head is responsible for picking up on poor performance. Our Head would be turning every stone over to improve and look at what had gone wrong! It can be a less than stellar year group of course and the school knew there would be a dip. It can happen! However, the point is - they knew there would be a dip - no surprises! A governor shouldn’t be the only one noticing a dip in performance! Poor academic performance should be scrutinised, primarily by the Head, and the Improvement Plan adjusted if need be. Should it be a major issue, the Heads performance targets can be include improved performance in the given area too, if appropriate.

I am a staff governor in an academy. Our chain is actually one that realises that each of its schools is different in character, location etc and with a few exceptions, has not removed powers from the lgb. We are bound by our constitution wrt the number of governors and which group they belong to - staff, parents, LA etc. I believe it is similar in local authority schools and do not see how it would therefore be possible for the head to surround themselves with 'friendly's parents. Parent governors and staff governors have to go through an election process and there are restrictons which mean that you cannot be a staff governor in a school where you are also the parent of a current pupil and vice versa.
Our minutes are taken by an independent clerk from the LA governance department and show that we challenge our head robustly and regularly. Our recent OFSTED visit showed that we are very aware of the challenges our school faces and there was an acknowledgement that we do not just rubber stamp every decision taken by the head.
We are all expected to take part in statutory training - safeguarding, prevent etc. We are also all signed up to the NGA training portal and are expected to undertake regular training either via NGA, LA or the Academy. It is in our handbook that we will undertake at least three lots of training each academic year.

Harveydog1, I think the problem you have is that you are assuming that your school governing board is typical of all governing boards across England and therefore every school management structure around governance needs changing. The reality is that what you say tells me that your GB is struggling and needs help but that does not equate to scrap the whole system for the 80%+ (I think) of schools where governance is strong.
I have and still am involved in schools where the GB has been removed by the LA for not doing their job. In these cases a small number of very experienced people are put into the school to sort out the problems. I would suspect that in at least 30% of schools where this happens, one of the first tasks of the Interim Executive Board is to remove the head teacher from their post as they are not up to the task in hand.
I would therefore, if you feel so inclined, contact the LA and put your concerns to them. I think that they will not be over willing to share information with you but I am sure that they will take a note of what you say and attempt to triangulate what you say and if necessary take some action.

OP, I wonder if your school is a faith school? We are and so we have foundation governors who are appointed by the priest. They come from the parish and so some of them happen to be parents. This means we have two parent governors (elected by the parents) and some foundation governors who are parents.

As others have said, governors don’t need to be trained to lead a school, that’s the head’s job. They bring a range of skills and are there to challenge and support. Governors are strategic leaders and are not involved in the day to day running of the school.

I was a parent governor and quit after 12 months.
I was shocked by the blatant chumminess and cherrleading of the head. There was zero challenge. I suggested some small changes eg regular newsletter and these were all met with derisory put downs.
When governors work well thats great but when you have someone as deluded as our chair you're in trouble.

I was shocked by the blatant chumminess and cherrleading of the head.

I no longer have school age children, but that was my experience. Parent governors rose through the PTA and were largely people with time on their hands who saw their role as defending the poor misunderstood head.

@harveydog1
Why are you surprised that governors are receiving support? You seem to be demonising them irrationally as you are reluctant to explain all their faults. Most posters will understand that these people are volunteers and they are mostly motivated by an interest in improving the life chances and outcomes for local children in their communities. It's a pretty thankless task. Your attitude has clearly been formed by your own bad experience but trying to extrapolate that into a national phenomena is wrong.

I agree with OP on many points.
I appreciate that the system is supposed to work, but even though the governors and intelligent people, good careers, have been on the training courses, it doesn't always work.

I know 5 governors and 2 chairs at 4 different schools and all say there are quite a few problems with things actually working well.

I'm also wondering if some issues aren't due to the state of the education system as a whole, rather than governing bodies in particular? I know that we were often frustrated by decisions that we had to make and by the limited options available to us sometimes. Maybe outsiders questioned why we had acted in a certain way but they wouldn't have been in possession of the same information that we had so it possibly looked as though we weren't doing the best of jobs when in fact, many times our hands were tied by factors outside of our control.

The relationship with the HT is an interesting one. Governors are there to challenge and hold them accountable and yet are also the Head's employer and so subject to the employer/employee legislation too. I can see a potential fine line between challenging and constructive dismissal. It is a huge responsibility to give to volunteers, we ran a £5 million budget, and yet I maintain that we were truly independent because we were volunteers and so had the freedom to speak out.

I agree that governing bodies do serve a function around premises, finance and overall personnel matters. Somebody has to agree and approve a school's budget, headcount etc. This is where governors from the community who have expertise in finance or HR can make a useful contribution - fine.

However, my own personal view is that it would be better to remove the scrutiny of the head's reporting on curriculum and attainment from governing bodies and put that in the hands of a paid Ofsted-style independent committee of school improvement experts.

The governors who have come forward on this thread are clearly highly articulate individuals and more than up to the job of challenging a headteacher. But many schools just do not have that kind of community and I have seen individuals come forward to be parent governors (in uncontested elections) whose own education, confidence and basic skills were at a pretty minimal level.

When I was a governor I remember a parent governor asking questions about the headteacher's statement on punctuality and attendance. What could be done about it? How could these parents be motivated to bring their children on time?

His own wife was one of the worst offenders!

MaybeDoctor

Governing bodies do work with school improvement partners (who are educationalists) and advise on attainment, achievement, progress etc.

All too often though these issues are interlinked. The best outcomes are achieved by having the best staff (personnel) which is impacted by budget (finance) so you need to have joined up thinking. You can't deal with these issues in isolation.

We also found it extremely difficult to recruit governors with particular areas of expertise. You are expecting people to give up their free time and it's not always at convenient times if you are working.

Honestly, I can see the time when we have professional, paid governors. Yes, there are benefits to that but I do worry that people will be more concerned with maintaining their job than challenging the system.

Your situation sounds similar to one at a local school to me and i do recognise some of the points you make.
Governing bodies should and can work effectively, challenging and supporting the school. But it takes a special kind of volunteer to have the skills, knowledge and ability to work closely to carry that out affectively.

In the situation at the local school, the entire governing board resigned and the new ones have been hand picked by the new head so they are compliant, inexperienced and don't yet have the skill set (governing courses are extensive) needed to recognise the issues in the school. By hand picking the governors is means they are blindly supportive of the head teacher to the detriment of the huge deficit the school is already in, as well as the actual failings within the school. The original governors needed to finish the job they started with the shit head teacher (they employed), but instead understandably threw their hands up and went I'm a volunteer i don't need this shit.

Meanwhile the other local school has an incredible governing board, with an active leader who has the skill set to effectively challenge and support the school and do it independently.

So yes it can and does work, but equally some times the governors get too close and are not objective enough to question the school.

All governing bodies have access to training. All schools have access to a school improvement partner. All schools can ask for (and pay for) external advice. Governors are not alone. They have access to huge amounts of advice and training opportunities. When a problem occurs, it’s usually because everyone has their heads in the sand and are in denial of reality because they don’t have the skills to recognise the failings or do anything about them. In effect, they don’t really know the school.

You really don’t need to be highly intelligent to be a governor. Most governors have a niche subject. If someone is a builder, there is no reason why they cannot help advise on school premises. They could also learn how to interpret data! Why not? It isn’t ludicrously detailed and lots of the judgements are made for you regarding benchmarking. The difficult issue is what to do when a school is nosediving. This is where skills are really tested. So anyone can interpret data but changing the school is far more difficult. A quasi ofsted GB won’t really help with that. The key will be the Head knowing the time of day. You can never move a school forward with a poor Head. That’s when it becomes really difficult for good governors. They must deal with this situation because children are being failed. That’s the aim of a governing body. To ensure children are well educated. It’s not about serving alcohol at a pta event, talking about the cost of loo rolls and pencils or even worrying about a newsletter - none of this is strategic or affects educational outcomes one iota! However lesser qualified people can participate and they shouldn’t be rejected if they are keen and wish to train.

In all my time as a trainer of governors and a clerk to governors and a governor, I have never, ever, seen a GB hand picked by a Head! That’s a first in 35 years!

At the local school I mentioned above, the head approached the parents she wished to be governors. There was no letter inviting applicants, it just went straight to vote but with names on there she's approached.
Id say that was pretty hand picked.

It is a legal requirement that parents are informed of the vacancy for a parent governor and are asked if they wish to be a governor. If there are more interested parents than vacancies, an election must take place. If not enough parents are interested, or none, a parent governor may be appointed by the Governors if they have the requisite skills. Therefore one would assume your school acted illesgally if parents were not informed of the vacancy. It’s a shame you didn’t challenge the Chair and Head about this at the time!

No governor is a professional governor. The point is that each governor has their own skills, experience and expertise to bring to the table. Parents who are, for instance, lawyers, accountants, IT professionals, nurses, social workers etc all have very valuable experience. One of the most effective governors I ever came across was a firefighter. Also a lot of ongoing training for governors is available and there is a high expectation that they attend it.

I'd be amazed if the governors don't elect the chair. Are you sure that they don't in your school?

OP, are you a governor yourself, or have you applied to become one?

The cronyism at our school between HT and governors was off the scale. The HT was employing some of the governors for the business she ran on the side. How is this ethical? DH went nuts and said I should report them all to LA. I tried to get their heads out of the sand re how things could be different and perhaps the HT was not that fantastic but no wanted to hear it.
The chair pushed me out and I quit.
As a governor my experience was you are on your own.
I have not spoken to the HT since. He is a total arse.

Why don't you apply to become one then instead of moaning about it