Should I move DD to another school?

[User323676890]

DD is 7 and has just been diagnosed with dyslexia. School so far have been supportive (we had a private assessment) and their SEN provision is known to be good.

DD has been meeting expectations all along, although it’s now clear not meeting her potential. She’s in a one form entry school, where she is happy. Her particular class is quite challenging, there are a number of disruptive kids, quite a bit of difficult behaviour (which is only getting worse as they get older). Some very gifted kids too, and it feels like the two ends of the spectrum command the time and attention.

DD’s confidence is low as she is aware she’s been finding things more difficult than her able peers. Hopefully with targeted support she’ll now get help to thrive. However the class environment isn’t going to change and I know that noise and distractions are a factor in DDs difficulties.

We could move her to a private with smaller classes (15ish) who cater for dyslexia. However it would be a stretch. We’re in an 11+ area, the secondaries aren’t attractive.

Our dilemma is would it be better to leave her where she is until the end of primary, happy and secure but probably not in the most ideal environment, and save the money for private secondary? What will have most influence on her confidence and attainment long term?

Thanks for any insight!

Bump 😬

Maybe try one of the dyslexia charities. They often have helplines. Talk it through with them.

I am no educational expert but I would go for the private school now if you can. The earlier you can get her the support she needs the better. By secondary maybe the gap could have widened or her confidence more dented.

Thanks I hadn’t thought about a dyslexia charity.

Pay the money now, while the gap is small and confidence is ok.

Don't wait till confidence has been knocked and she is struggling.

cheerful she will get support for her dsylexia at her state school, some one to one, some extra help in class. It’s mostly the noise, distraction and multiple pulls on the teacher I’m concerned about. But I’m not sure if being happy and settled is more valuable to her confidence right now than a smaller, calmer class and generally higher academic aspirations. Hmmm.

This is exactly what we went through with our daughter. We made the move in Year 3. Best thing we did. Dd is now in Year 8, confident and in the top sets for everything. Yes it is a little of a stretch with the private fees but well worth it.

Thanks worriedmum. Can you articulate what really made the difference to your DD after moving? This is so the opposite of what we’d planned. We wanted a village school where she’d be with her local friends. Being such a bright little cookie from a toddler, we had no idea we’d be facing this decision in year 2. My DH is worrying about ruining her life by removing her from her friends...

Have you visited the other school yet? The idea of specialist support is of course really attractive, but, for example, in such a small class group it might be harder to make friends, there might be fewer extra-curricular activities (all of which build confidence) etc etc.

As the mother of a 13 yo with SEND I have two main pieces of advice: 1) there isn't a perfect solution, everything involves a trade-off in one way and another and 2) you can sit with the diagnosis for a bit and just see how things go. You don't have to jump into big decisions right away.

Hulahulahula I’m pretty new to Mumsnet behave tried to pm you.

Lonny yes I have. It isn’t a specialist school but genuinely caters for different abilities. The extra curricular opportunities are much better than her current school. I’m mostly concerned about her joining a class of formed friendships and kids who are already streets ahead in sport. DD has good skills but the current school has few opportunities to use them.

thanks worried I got it!

Anyone who can generally talk to me about moving from state to private in yr3? Especially how your child fitted in socially and any gaps in learning.

As a Learning Support teacher in an independent prep school with mixed abilities I can tell you what we do - generally children who come to us from State School will have some gaps where we would offer support either extra with class TA or 1:1 with teacher if needed.

As your DD has a diagnosis of Dyslexia we offer a minimum of one lesson a week in English and or Maths if needed. We work on boosting confidence and self-esteem plus learning.

We do not charge for our support lessons. In addition to this we also offer extra reading 3 times per week with a TA/ teacher(on top of class reading), sessions with TA/teacher to complete additional learning programmes such as Toe by Toe or Plus 1.

This is all included in fees whereas a lot of other independent schools have high charges for extra support lessons - an important consideration when looking at schools!

Around here there are children joining in Yr3 as this is a natural transition point for children from Infant Schools. We add another class at Yr3. Ask the school how many children would normally join at Yr3 - is there an assessment day - what form does it take?

We are in a similar situation in that we have a daughter in year 3 who has Dyslexia. She is in a private school with 15 in a class and a teacher and teaching assistant.
She really struggles with working memory and to understand instruction delivered orally. We know that she would struggle being in a class any larger than this, and she actually learns best in a one to one situation. The fees are hard, but for us, we need to get her English and Maths up to the expected standard before secondary. Where I think it gets a little easier for Dyslexics as they have developed the strategies for getting their ideas down, are more able to use laptops etc.
Any child that joined our school for year 3 has settled quickly and they are all a very friendly and welcoming bunch.

Thanks Lara that’s so useful. There are two potential independent schools with places, one mentions “specific learning support charges” which I hadn’t noticed! Would that be for the kind of support you mention above?

If she receives an IEP at state school does this follow her into the private sector? She will qualify for some SALT support at her current school which is free to us, I’m not sure what else yet but probably extra teaching assistant help in class and individually.

I’m torn about what to do. I don’t want to delay the decision too much and miss out on limited yr3 spaces.

user thanks for sharing your experience. Do you have to pay extra for the individual learning support?

I’m trying to research independent schools more widely and it seems very hard to establish which are going to be suitable. It’s like there’s a whole world of insider knowledge on where is good, where is or isn’t ‘academic’, etc. I don’t really know how to assess them. We did look at a few before she started her state primary but I very much felt I was being ‘sold’ to in all cases. And one who clearly didn’t want anyone who wasn’t sure their kid was already an academic high flier at 4

Lara one school has no assessment, the other does a brief reading, writing and spelling assessment and wants to see the Educational Psychologist report (I guess other school will too)

We have not had to pay for any extra help so far. She has phonic intervention with a group of around 4, for 30 mins 4 times a week. This has helped so much with her reading.
It has been suggested she could do with some one to one help in another area, for this there is a charge of £20 per hour.
We chose the school when she was 2 before we knew what extra help she would need. It also meant she started school without any assessments.
However our school do admit children with additional needs, as long as they are academic needs and not social. Lots of children with Dyslexia often have other areas of strong talent and these are often sort by the private schools, Art/Sport etc. Good luck with your hunt for the right school.

Happy to help. I suggest discussing the charges with the schools individually - each school has their own way of doing things, so hard to say what is/isn’t included in fees and what you’ll pay for.

If she has an IEP in state you should take a copy when visiting schools and arrange to meet the Senco when you visit. Does she have an Ed Psych report? Take this also and highlight the difficulties your DD has and ask how they would support - in class, individual etc. They may use the IEP targets as a jumping off point, but again each school has different systems so they will want to see how she fits in the class and write their own targets for her.

I think the Salt support would be available if the school is in the same area, otherwise this may be something you need to find privately if she needs further support

I think you need to be aware that some private schools will tell you they support dyslexic children but in reality you will be paying for extra lessons that start at 8 am in the morning and the teachers are poorly trained even if there are only 15 in the class. Many private schools run a mile from children with IEPs that require external or substantial intervention so the schools are very vague about who they will admit.

You therefore need to find out what’s actually done and how much extra you pay. My local school tried to put a neighbour’s DD down two years because they didn’t differentiate the work. No one applied for a statement so she had great difficulty getting into a state special school at 11.

Also most private schools are not full of wall to wall genius children who will be miles better than yours. Mine went from state to private in y7 and was always near the top of the top set. The gaps may not be as huge as you think.

I would visit and be honest about what you would like and see if the schools are willing and able to provide it. If local friends mean more to her, you can get tutoring for less than the cost of a private school. Don’t assume private school children are angels either!

Thanks bubbles that’s all useful to know. She’s in a very boy heavy class now, and some of those are a big handful. Behaviour tends to dominate many activities to an unacceptable extent. We’d be looking at girls’ schools with a max of 18 to a class (compared to 31). I find it hard to imagine anything similar would be tolerated but I do take the point that there will also probably be some kids who aren’t nice, too.

What do you mean by ‘the teachers are poorly trained’? I know quite a few teachers and I’m aware that state primary teachers are often better in terms of training in SEN, but I didn’t get the impression that private teachers were any less well trained in general?

Thanks again Lara its a really good suggestion to ask to meet the SENCO. The other schools are both in the same area so I hope the SALT provision could follow.

As a primary teacher who has spent 14 years in the state sector and 2 in an independent school, I'd encourage you to very carefully explore what's on offer at the independent schools. More often than not, you will find that SALT has to be paid for and that the educational psychology service will not be available to you. In some cases, those schools will tell you that they are working at least a year ahead of the state schools but actually, their curriculum and methods are so out of date that their Y4 spelling lists align with the Y1 spelling lists of the current English curriculum (this is not an exaggeration, honest!). Find out about the qualifications of the teachers at the independent school, when the staff last had curriculum-based or SEN CPD, ask about the provisions they currently make for existing pupils with dyslexia, what's their use of voice recognition technology or reading pens like, how is homework modified for dyslexic pupils etc etc. Don't assume that because a class is smaller, it will be a better learning environment. Research shows that feedback has a greater impact on children's progress than class size does. Do the children at the independent schools line up at the teacher's desk, waiting for books to be marked? What's the differentiation like? Does the teacher always work with a middle group and leave a TA to support the children who are struggling?

In your DD's current school, would it help her to wear ear defenders or to sit somewhere different in the classroom? I think I'd be inclined to consider spending money on getting some specific tutoring from a dyslexia specialist teacher and leaving her at the school where she's happy and revisiting in 6 months or so.

Can only speak from my experience but I have a good understanding of education through my work and family members' careers, and have just moved my child (Y2) from state to private after researching local private schools thoroughly. I can confirm they are very clearly working a year ahead, in maths and literacy. Not hard to do with a ratio of 1 adult to 4 kids. The vast majority of the the teachers I spoke to in the schools I looked at had previously worked in state, so if they're poorly trained then so are the state teachers. You only have to look in the 'staffroom' forum here to see that teachers leave state for private all the time. They are the same teachers with the same training, just able to achieve more in better working conditions in many cases! Our child is a reluctant writer, has been for a year and a half in state, has had no assessment for dyslexia or other Sen despite his state school being a fully inclusive school (there are far too many other kids with far more severe needs who rightly take precedence). Two weeks into the private school and they are telling us they will assess him next week - tbh I don't think dyslexia is the problem but the point is, they are quickly and efficiently looking into it (they are non selective and have a number of children with SEN.).
You need to read the school report, either ISI or Ofsted and personally I would look for 'excellent' or 'exemplary' teaching above outcomes. Merely 'good' teaching coupled with 'excellent' outcomes in a private school report just means the parents are adding more value than the teachers are. Schools don't want to accept your child just to ask them to leave again, and will be honest about whether they are the right place for your child or not if you ask them. And of course visit them, talk to current parents and teachers, and trust your instincts.