8/9 year olds to know their times tables within 6 seconds

[noblegiraffe]

It has been decided that 6 seconds is the time limit for children to know their tables for the new Y4 times tables check, to ensure that they are recalling them, not working them out.

schoolsweek.co.uk/pupils-will-get-6-seconds-to-complete-times-tables-test-questions/

I agree. That's why I said it's been dumbed down since it was announced

It might not pick up the kids with minor problems but it will definitely pick up those with serious problems.

I’ve got kids in Y11 who would definitely fail this test. They will also fail to get a grade 4 in their maths GCSE.

I can think of kids who would pass this test but still fail their GCSE. I can’t think of any who would fail this test but pass their GCSE.

Wow - Noble - that’s very interesting.

Presumably a lot of the point of having these tests are to ensure that teachers really prioritise tables memorisation as well.

I couldn't do all of the times tables in that time. I'm very successfully doing a maths degree.

The ones that actually get used, yeah I could do those, but I'm quicker with square numbers because you use them more. Anything I don't remember I have a calculator for...

But you rarely use your times tables in a maths degree. You use them quite a lot in primary and secondary.

I’m a lot quicker at them now I’m a maths teacher than when I was doing my degree.

But noble, those who have serious problems would be known to the teachers anyway?

Aren't those with minor problems are the ones who really needed to be picked up by the test like this, before they start secondary and make them more secondary ready?

Making tables a focus means that more kids will be helped over the borderline, irvine

Put a test in and teachers will teach to it.

Why are times tables considered so important? Genuinely curious - I’m a fully functioning adult and I’ve never been able to do them. No learning disabilities - always academically successfully though doubtless incompetent in plenty of other ways - they have just never, ever gone in. I can’t think of a single way it has held me back, although granted my job is in no way maths-based.

I rather sympathise with this point of view:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/16/times-tables-multiplication-learning-by-rote?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

research shows that short-term memory is limited in the number of elements it can contain simultaneously so by memorising multiplication facts (times tables) and ensuring they are in the child's long-term memories, they will then be able to focus more on the question/problem, rather than becoming stressed about the calculation.

My dd’s teacher told us at parents evening that it was 1 per 4 seconds they are working too. Agree about the times table rockstars it’s really good (I’ve had a go myself to brush up on my times tables ) it gets them thinking about it from all ways round and they can get quite competitive when they set class challenges on it - really spurs them on.

Good to see that guy in the Guardian proudly parading his ignorance

Yes having facts in your long term memory frees up your working memory to get on with the important business of solving the problem at hand.
But also being able to look at a pair of numbers and recognise their common factors is important in work in fractions, ratio, algebra.
‘Factorise 28x + 63’ is a lot more difficult if like the journalist you never learned your 7 times table and worked it out from scratch each time.

I’m struggling with the idea that someone, who can calculate change instantly because they know their number bonds for 10 couldn’t learn their times tables tbh.

That’s got to be quite rare in any class of children.

To be honest he seems to have quite a few problems with Maths

Beyondtheshore totally agree with you. Who needs them anyway? Just like I don’t need History as I can Google anything, Google map and Google search make Geography redundant and similarly for a whole host of other subjects. In a job where I just talk to random people everyday, I can bullshit my way through life without learning anything.

Children will improve and get quicker with repeated practice. DD3 came home this week and said her TT Rockstars time was 60 questions in 96 seconds. The quickest child in her class had done 60 questions in 59 seconds. This is on paper.

DS is in year 4 and his (computer) time is 0.71 seconds per question. He adores maths and plays TT Rockstars regularly. I'm guessing on paper though it would be a tad slower (although he does whizz through his mental maths workbook). When I ask him random TT questions he provides instant answers thanks to the app. Repeated practice definitely works.

I struggle with times tables, and maths in general. I would have loved something like TT Rockstars to help me memorise when I was his age.

The times table test will be online.

But they will easily be able to work them out in six seconds...
This. I could easily do them faster at that age, and so could my DS, working them out, not recall.

Recall caused more problems when DS memorised 3x4=16 by mistake, something he'd been able to work out correctly in less than 6 seconds since he was 5.

Have the times tables now gone back up to 1212? When dd went to primary it was only to 1010.
Also dd learnt to factorize numbers by breaking them down into prime factors, as this was useful for finding the highest common factor and the lowest common denominator.

I agree that children need to know the basics, but they also need to be engaged with wanting to learn maths. It is a balance, and at the present, the emphasis is too far towards rote learning and arithmetic and not enough to the fun of patterns. By year 4, dd was already bored by maths lessons. She did know her times tables and having to repeat them in maths so the whole class could jump through another hoop would have just added to the tedium of it.

I agree with GreenEggsHamandChips, in the long run instantly recalling square numbers (and I would add higher powers of the smaller numbers) has been more useful.