Yr 2 to Yr 3 drop in maths ability

[DoAsSayNotAsDo]

Hoping to get a bit of hive brain help!
DD is in yr 3 & having finished yr 2 exceeding ability in numeracy and literacy, we were horrified to find out from her this week that she's now in s lower/middle group for maths - especially as her form teacher didn't tell us this at parents evening a few weeks ago (she didn't show us any assessment she'd made as felt 1/2 a term wasn't enough time to know where they were).

DD says she doesn't like maths & doesn't think she'll need maths as she wants to draw comics (self employment/working out tax has been mentioned 😂).

We're going to discuss with school/teacher, but does anyone have any tips/useful apps/worksheets to signpost us to use to help her fall in love with maths a bit more?

We love mathsseeds. You can get a free trial too. Use it on a computer on download the app on an iPad.

Half a term should be plenty of time to know where each child is and group them accordingly. Do you know which maths programme they’re doing? It sounds like your daughter hasn’t regained her summer levels yet and there may be a number of factors at play. She may have been pushed for SATs and not done much afterwards,(I know but it does happen), she may have not really mastered the concepts so they’re not in her long term memory so she’s having to relearn or overlearn, she’s been adversely affected by having six weeks off being a kid (and doing no maths) ... it’s hard to tell and your teacher should really have flagged it up for you. As a Y3 teacher myself I’d say her attitude to the subject is a bit worrying. If she doesn’t like it she’s unlikely to be doing her best. Which is a shame given her previous achievement. You need to ask for a meeting and ask some difficult questions.

Erm ... how do you know she’s in a lower group if the teacher didn’t tell you?

How would she know which group she's in and why? The teacher may be doing mixed ability groupings, the teacher may have temporary groupings set up for different areas of the curriculum, she may need to revise concepts she's forgotten, there may be social elements to groupings...a long list. Others may have blossomed and ahot past her, it happens. She may be borderline between two groupings. Her position in the class isn't information I'd discuss with you as a teacher, but I'd certainly talk about her achievement in general and areas to improve.

Anyway, try her on IXL or mathletics.

How do you know she's in a middle group?

How do you know she's not in a class of maths geniuses and the standard of the middle group is still pretty high?

How do you know she's not hit a natural plateau?

How do you know she just wasn't very strong in whatever particular area of maths they've just been studying?

Sounds like you've had a recent parents evening - what did the teacher actually say about how DC was doing in maths? Because really you can't tell anything from what group she sits in.

As others have said, how do you know? Ability groupings are noonger considered good practice, especially for maths mastery so it may be that the teacher is not using them.

Also, the maths mastery curriculum unfortunately bears no resemblance to year 2 sats - mastery relies on lots of use of practical equipment which bizarrely is not allowed for SATS - so in some schools the year 2 pupils miss bits of the mastery curriculum which then have to be taught in year 3.

Don't worry and just work on your daughter's confidence and resilience in learning. Praise her for trying hard rather than performance. Explain that some times you don't understand straight away but as you keep working on things they become clearer. I've taught any number of girls who have decided age 7 that they can't do maths because suddenly they can't do it all instantaneously. In reality they are perfectly competent mathematicians.
The secret is truly to focus on process rather than outcome, so say things like
"Well done for keeping going even when you were finding it tricky" and " I like the way you corrected that mistake" etc.
Seriously, within a couple of months you'll have her much more enthusiastic about maths and engaging well with her lessons.

Maybe a bit better for older kids, but reviews say that 8 year olds like it.

This is Not a Maths Book: A Smart Art Activity Book www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1782402055/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_LD-6BbKC02DNF?tag=mumsnetforum-21

Also:

The Multiplication Tables Colouring Book: Solve the Puzzle Pictures While Learning Your Tables (Back to fundamentals) www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0906212855/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_MF-6BbEYQE6B9?tag=mumsnetforum-21

I'm surprised people are asking how she knows which group she's in - kids work it out. Even in YR my eldest knew which phonics group was doing harder work, kids are very aware of it. To be clear I agree that it's very sad that young kids get put into sets so obviously in schools but it does definitely happen.

I agree with PP who suggests using it as a chance to build resilience - if she picks up that you're concerned with her performance she'll be put off even more. Focus on effort. In terms of improving her maths ability a lot of it is just fluency (knowing times tables, being quick to add etc.). Some kids also find the reasoning more difficult (i.e. seeing which area of maths to use when faced with a practical problem). There are lots of apps to help with fluency and reasoning tends to come with practise (e.g. letting her handle money and work out how much change she should get, let her figure out how long she has left until bedtime, it takes 15 minutes to get ready for bed when does she need to start etc.).

We're aware of it as DD told my husband on Monday night - she was talking about not enjoying school and highlighted this as an issue, she tells us that kids she use to be in the same group as (which we're aware were grouped by ability) are still in same group so are guessing their not mixed ability groups. DD says she is now in group where she's being distracted/is unable to get on with her work.

Our big concerns are that this wasn't highlighted to us at the parents evening & how we can help support and encourage her learning.

Thanks for the app/book suggestions - going to see if I can be sneaky and print some bits off at work for her!

Maybe be the higher group is for kids who both love maths and have ability. So ones who are really enthusiastic about maths.

You need to work out what came first. Is she in the new group because she has lost her enthusiasm for maths or has she lost her enthusiasm for maths because she’s in the new group.

Different strategies needed for those eventualities.

I'm surprised people are asking how she knows which group she's in - kids work it out.

This! DS1 is in Year 2 and all last year and this he could tell you where he and his peers were in terms of different subjects, which tables were doing easier/harder work for different subjects, which table is for the people who are good at maths, who has to move for different subjects. Anyone who thinks kids can’t and don’t work these things out has a really low opinion of kids.

OP, I think kids have blips and dips in these things - I’d be more worried about your daughter’s attitude to maths and looking for ways to make it relevant and fun - PPs have some great suggestions (which I’m nicking for DS1 who loves maths but bridles at anything that feels like official ‘extension work’.

I'm surprised people are asking how she knows which group she's in - kids work it out.

DC know which children are good at x subject but are not necessarily good at working out which group is which. They might think that because Johnny is in red group and Johnny is good at maths that red group must all be good at maths, not realising that actually red group is mixed ability, or red group, yellow group and green group are all working at the same standard.

In Y1, DD's teacher had ability based groups which she assigned random numbers to. So the top group was Group 3, 2nd group was Group 5, third group was Group 1 etc.

Most of the children (and most of the parents) assumed that the groups must be numbered from Group 1 (highest) to Group 6(lowest). It caused huge upset; everyone refused to believe the teacher when she explained it was not so, and she ended up having to rename them as colours.

RedSkyLastNight

That's interesting my DC and the others in his class definitely knew which table was which from Y1. I never asked but my DS would come home telling me that he can't sit next to X because he's on the lower table for maths. They didn't number them and I hope and assume (although haven't asked) they didn't explicitly tell them but the kids were well aware of it. One of his friends came rushing out excited because he'd "moved up a table". Perhaps some schools are better than others at concealing it.

You could ask the teacher a general question about setting for maths - is it strictly by abiilty, or is there some mix? The point to raise is that she can't concentrate and has lost her enthusiasm.

Agree that half a term is plenty to do an initial assessment. Have they been set all term? If so on what basis - KS1 SATs?

Some children struggle more with the transition from KS1 to KS2, and learning isn't linear, so she may also have reached a plateau, in which case anything you can do to help should be welcomed by the school.