Moving to Richmond with dd 5, chances of state school place

[fruitesalad]

Dd is in year 1 in a private school. We are not in London but now want to move to Richmond as work in London and like the area and tbh I think we’d be better off trying to get into the state system instead of the continuous slog of school fees. (Will probably go back into private at 11+)

Estate agents have mentioned all their versions of ‘best’ state schools and obviously trying to push us into places within the catchment areas as £££
However, having done some research it appears that chances of dd getting a place in year 2 in Richmond itself are pretty slim.

We can delay the move until year 3 if this would be easier but it still isn’t clear if there would be any point to this if there simply won’t be any state places in year 3 anyway.
Is it madness to buy a place based on a school catchment now that dd is well last the initial application stage. Or should we just aim for independent anyway?

I don't know the area, so this is a general comment on school admissions.

If you move to Richmond and ask for a state school place in Y2, the LEA will be obliged to find you one. This might not be your closest school or your favourite school. You can go on the waiting list for any schools your prefer if you are prepared to home-ed/go private while you wait for a place to come up. This might be a long time, but places are allocated according to the admission criteria, so if these included distance, and if you are in catchment for your preferred school this will place you near the top of the waiting list.

In Y3, it's easier to get a place inasmuch as they infants class size restriction (that restricts a class size to 30 in Reception, Y1 and Y2) is lifted. So you have a chance (and I emphasise it is only a chance) of getting into a preferred school on appeal.

The advantage of going private is you have more of a choice of schools, but I would imagine that popular private schools are also full, and again you would have more chance of getting in in Year 3, which is a natural entry point.

Some people move their children at the end of year 2 to private schools so additional spaces come up in state schools. Richmond is one of the boroughs in the country that has the highest percentage of children attending private secondary schools. You will also have Tiffin grammar school option, if the style of school is appropriate for your child.

If there are separate infant/junior schools then moving for year three shouldn’t be so difficult as the admissions criteria start again and being in catchment would mean you’d likely be fine.

Ok thanks, so although I’m aware the LEA has to find a place but can they find a place that’s far away ie I have to drive, I’m trying to avoid that.

@BigGreenOlives why is it that Richmond has the highest % of dc attending secondary private, is that just the done thing or are the secondary schools not so great? Is it beneficial to stay in the prep school system in Richmond? Thanks I’m trying to gather as much info as I can, I’ve read other things on here as well but trying to make sense of it all and also if I should delay move until year 3 applications vs year 2.

I think it’s just a rich area

The state primaries are - for the most part - among the best in the country. It doesn’t seem that the same can be said for the secondaries (but I’m willing to be corrected by those with greater knowledge: I am local but at pre-primary stage). Richmond doesn’t have grammars so I think some people try their luck with the Tiffin grammars in Kingston or go private, either from 11 or 4. You do hear of people moving their children at 7, but I don’t think there is the same 7+ culture (and therefore entry point) as North London so fewer places come up.

I would ring some of the schools to see whether they have any availability. Do you want faith or non-faith (bear in mind that as the schools are all over-subscribed, vicar/priest references are likely to be necessary for the faith schools)? Some of the best are The Vineyard, Marshgate, Sheen Mount, Thomson House and St Elizabeth’s RC but there are several more that are Ofsted 1 graded. There is a good admissions booklet on the council’s website that lists them all. Among the privates, I like Old Vicarage (single sex). If we do decide to go private, DD will go there. There is also Newland House and Kew College, which are co-ed, plus various others (Unicorn etc). Good luck!

I live in the Richmond area. All the state primaries and secondaries are generally fantastic schools. I think there's quite a lot of movement in school places with families moving out of London so places do come up in primary schools - I know of one school where 14 kids left in one year, so if you want to go to a state primary it shouldn't be a problem - although obviously not guaranteed! Interestingly there are loads of under capacity schools in current reception as birth rate in the borough has dropped a lot. People go private as there are a lot of people with loads of money!

Ahh ok thank you, we’re not exactly rolling in it but can pay fees if we have to.

I live in a grammar area so it’s different here, most parents are prepping to pass 11+ to get into state grammars and then anyone that doesn’t pass goes onto private secondary because frankly the comps here are pretty bad.

I’m trying to weigh up if we can get away with state primary in Richmond and then return to the fun of paying fees at 11+ easily.

I’m also confused as to how I compare an outstanding primary to a private school, are they comparable? I don’t want to allow dd to miss out just because I don’t want to pay fees. (The onus is massively on me as I don’t work as dh always abroad so feel it’s better now for dd to have a parent at home, we have no family help with childcare)

You absolutely do not need to pay for private school in Richmond, like any other rich area with no "sink estates", all the schools are choc full of people who care about education and support the school. The only chance of a bad school is if any of them have truly awful management, but again the engaged, educated parents will limit the risk of that.

The only reason to pay for private primary in Richmond is to ensure you are not looked down upon by the people who insist on only private being appropriate, or you need specific prep for specific private secondary - ie you only care about an Eton pathway.

As fruitesalad suggested, the turnover of people in SW London means you pretty much always have places appearing throughout the years, you are unlikely to get a long journey to school for long, even if you did initially.

I agree that state private in RIchmond is because you want to rather than you need to. Achool place dpends on where you're going ot live in Richmond but by year 2 there is a bit of movement so you'll probably be lucky.

Even the primaries that people tend to look down on a bit would be considered good by most areas standards!

My son is in state seconday just over the bridge in Chiswick and it's generlly seen to be a large rough school. INterestingly in my experience the paretns love it! But probably not for you if you're the kind of person even considering private. Several good state secondaries which are more "pseudo-private" though.

Oops excuse typos!

Love your name @Kewcumber

@CMC12 why on earth did 14 dc leave, where did they go!
Hopefully that will happen when I move

You will definitely find a place in a Richmond state primary, and almost all of them are Ofsted Outstanding, with most of the others Good. I don't think a single state primary in Richmond is full throughout; there is a lot of movement of families in the primary years. If you call the admissions office, they should be able to tell you which schools have places now. Richmond has brilliant state primary schools and they get good support from the LA, so leadership is generally excellent. Don't worry either about minor differences in headline results between schools. These are usually not significant - there is so much more to a school, and an individual child's history and progress, that is not captured by headline data.

We live there and our children go to one of the schools mentioned earlier. They both love it in overall. There was time I wish the school could have done more for some able children to feel more engaged and progressed better. Music isnt spectacular either. The school doesnt prepare for 11+, I dont think any state school does. However in our experience, my daughter maths and English are both very solid(they are billingual, we dont speak English to each other). My elder is in yr 6 and is a book worm, loves reading, very solid in maths. I have to credit the school for these however I dont know how they did it, there is hardly any home work(For example, mid-term and no homework for yr6).

Secondary, majority of children in our school go to private, some year as many as 80% or more mainly because parents can afford it.

You'll definitely get a place somewhere in Richmond because as others have said, there is so much movement between schools and abroad/outside of the borough.

It is also extremely common to move to private school for secondary. I am a tutor and a lot of my students are sitting 11+ exams.

However, I've also lived in Richmond for years and, in my opinion, there is no need to send them to private schools here but people do because they have the choice (money), plain and simple.

We chose not to send ours to private schools: they went to state primaries and are now at a state secondary which is one of the best state schools in the country. My DC have kept in touch with their primary school friends who mostly go to private schools now. A lot of my friends are their parents. There is no difference between them socially or academically, or me and my friends. Results are the same. My eldest got the same results as his peers at GCSE, is doing the same number/type of A levels and has the same university aspirations as his private school friends. They all do the same extra-curricular things. Private schools just get longer holidays!