Pros and cons of small schools.

[inabox]

Starting to look at schools for my DD who will be starting in reception next September. We live in a village which doesn't have its own school but there are several neighbouring villages where the schools range from very small (800 pupils).

I've been to look at a small one today. It was lovely but reception, Y1 and Y2 were all in the same class! The 3/4 together and 5/6 together.

Could anyone give me any experience of this? What are the pros and cons? I suppose I'm mainly worried that academic attainment may be affected. Also general pros and cons of a very small school?

I ask if there was any chance that it might close, she said no and that it was an exciting time for them as they were becoming part of a small academy which should mean they get more funding.

I think the amount of kids they can take in per year is down to max of 30 in the infant class. So it will be 12 this year. I think it has about 70 overall. Sounds like they have mixed this up a bit to accommodate a bigger cohort on occasion.

My 3 all went to the small village primary. Joint years except for reception. They had the best education we could have hoped for. They left happy, confident well rounded kids. With the smaller schools they often have partnerships with others schools in the area. Shared resources certainly help make the funding stretch further. The Joint years worked well too. Always found the kids were stretched academically. The staff were very well trained in teaching over 2 years. One of the nicest aspects was they were part of the village. Had harvest festival in the church, did paintings for the horticultural show, maple dancing at the summer fair , created a real commumity and family feel. By the end of year 6 they were ready to spread their wings and head off to various senior schools. For us it was the best choice we could have made

I'm that OP classes 800 pupils as a small school! Surely that's at least medium-large? My DS goes to a 1 form entry school in a large northern city and they have approx 180 max. I'd say 2 form entry is more typical, but more than 400 pupils and you're getting into pretty big territory?

I'd say that when things are good with a small school, they're great - they mix with other years better and all the teachers know all the kids. However if there's friendship issues then there's not a very big pool to swim in iyswim.

No I said less than 100 was small, more than 800 was large! Of course more than 800 is a large school!!

Small school I'm talking about has about 10 kids start per year. Definitely small!!

I think 10 a year is too small. It is great for infant but as the children get older, I think they need more friends, a wider variety of children to learn about how others tick and the lack of decent sport and music can be limiting.

I think many very small schools can teach the curriculum very well but that’s not entirely what children learn. Their pool of friends will be small and the village won’t have much variety of backgrounds and cultures. You will see that music or drama cannot be as good as a bigger school, or sport. It depends if you value any of this.

The tiny school is obviously becoming an academy so are you happy with this? Whether the school will see more money is debateable. The school funding mechanism is still the same. The tiny school will always be working hard to maintain numbers. However 800 is big for a primary and very few are this big. That’s 4 forms of entry a year. My local infant school is this but it’s only Y to Y2 so doesn’t feel huge. I would expect to see infants being fairly separate from the juniors. I wouldn’t dismiss it though. It probably offers loads of clubs and extra activities.

My ds went to a primary which had 400 pupils and when we moved attended the village school for year 6, there was 44 children in the school,2 classes and he done brillinatly there. I'm so glad he had that experience. it was literally like a family and the teachers were great at seeing to every childs individual needs which is not always possible in a class of 30+.

Only reason I'd personally swerve a small school would be because of my own kids' combination of ages and the mixed year classes meaning they'd end up in a class together (I have under 11 months between them) and that would be a seriously bad idea with my children's personalities combined (one steamroller, one stifled by the steamroller plus bickering endlessly). Otherwise I'd be perfectly happy to send my kids to one and I think DD2 in particular would be better suited in one.

The friendship thing is just luck of the draw. My oldest was miserable at the bigger school - there were more cliques and queen bees and the teachers were much less aware of everything that went on. General playtime behaviour was much worse due to lack of interaction and supervision from adults.

In the smaller school they mix with all year groups so have a wide pool of ages and developmental stages to mix with, there's much closer supervision from adults who actually interact and offer structured play activities if needed at play time.

I have always made a point of my DC doing clubs and activities es away from school and we have lots of extended family and friends made from antenatal classes etc, so that they never feel school is the only social life they have which helps them brush off being left out of party invites sometimes etc.

Our small school is part of an academy chain of many, and has received funding for new furniture, new play equipment and extra staff since joining.

I think it really is a case of depending on the individual schools rather than generalisations.

Does it matter if there is a higher than average proportion of SEN kids?

Rural person here. Our school's are all pretty small; the one mine attend is small but isn't tiny - 150 children over 6 classes/year groups. I know children in another local school which is much smaller and they have had friendship issues due to being unable to move on and choose new friends, the size of the school is just too small for them. The staff in our school are almost all local too, so they're part of village life and the community. I think most children have only ever attended small schools so wouldn't have other experiences, so they just get on with it. Different if you're coming from a larger area/school.

One positive about a small friendship group is that, in most circumstances, the children HAVE to get on. Obviously, there are situations when this just isn't possible but, in my experience, there is less falling out because there are fewer children to fall out with!

Ds went to a medium primary and is now at a large secondary. Had a few good friends at primary but persistent problems with bullying from some kids. If the school was smaller he wouldn’t have been able to escape them

When I worked for a LA, we had many small rural schools that attracted quite large numbers of SEND children as their parents could drive them out of the local towns and put them with the “nice” children in the villages. This rather flooded the village schools and led to big problems managing classes and parental concerns about ratios. The village schools were between 30 and 120 children so large numbers of SEND children was a big percentage.

It also meant the town schools didn’t have the diversity they might have had. The poorest never moved into the village schools and neither did the ethnic minority families. The village schools were kept going by parents wishing to escape from their local children. Not altogether a healthy situation in my view. It kept the village schools open though.

I think the actual school matters more than the size. My dc attend a large school. Staff turnover is low - staff get to know children really well despite there being 90 - 120 per year. Resources / interest clubs are excellent. There are a range of activities at lunch time. Frequent trips to local park. There are a wide range of abilities in each year group and teaching is designed for all. I attended a smallish school 1 form entry. It was dire. My Dh attended a very small school it was amazing. I think the specifics of the school material more than generalisations.

Small schools and low intakes can be great but in my experience that only works for children who have mainstream interests such as football or dance etc. I find with a larger school that those children who may not like popular hobbies or interests are more likely to find likeminded souls to befriend.

It is also worth remembering that in a school where children share a classroom with peers across differing ages that if your child befriends a child in a year above them, they can become isolated when that friend moves on and they may find it difficult to make new friendships within other formed groupings.

We've moved around a little bit so my children now year 6 & 7 have been so a few different types of schools. When we moved a year ago I was actually excited for them to start at our local small village school, 110 pupils. They had moved from a 700 pupil school.

I have found it the worst out of the lot, especially for DD year 6. The worst problem has been on a friendship level. Girls can be a nightmare in friendship squabbles from a young age and most of it is easily dealt with or they're best friends again the next day anyway! At this small school if 2 friends fell out there wasn't anywhere to escape to or anyone else to play with so DD has often felt quite isolated or awkward and this is not like her at all!

Every school is different obviously but our small one has less money available to spend on equipment, sports, extra curricular activities etc so feels like quite a basic school.

The positives are that every teacher knows your child very well. I had assumed that small schools would be less likely for problems to "slip under the radar" but it's not true I'm afraid. I think I'm big school teachers and staff are actually more vigilant and less likely to assume that everything is ok.

This is just our personal experience though (4 primary schools they've been to) and I have just pulled her out of this most recent one and she's at a medium sized one now

We are looking at this right now although we are in a town.
The thing I can say having looked at some of the facilities and finances etc.
The larger school had an amazing library, sports fields, forest school area, yr 6 had their own playground if they want to use it. There is a dedicated music dept, with a studio. They have 2 choirs, they teach French from year 3. The number of clubs they have is mind boggling
The PTA raised £90,000 last year for the school.
It has really good teachers who have come from some of the smaller schools locally
The small school is definitely a much more family feeling, but they have greatly reduced budget and this is apparent in their buildings. They have nowhere near the facilities that the large school had.

I went to a tiny village school.

My dcs went to a big three-form entry school.

As others have said, many pros and cons, depending on the school. I loved my primary school. At one time there were 45 in my class. The teacher was was absolutely dedicated and taught music, dancing, art, sewing etc etc as well as 3Rs (trendy methods bypassed her!). However, in the last year we had a new teacher who was the pits. At 11 years old you can tell that someone is lazy, not terribly competent and has favourites. With only one class per two years you could be stuck with a duff teacher for a long while.

The dcs' school felt impersonal and very regimented. Otoh the dcs had plentiful and a wide variety of friends, and also the work/standards were moderated across the year so there was nowhere for substandard teachers to hide.

Small schools are great for confident children. Shy children tend to do better in bigger schools where they have more of a chance of finding someone they gel with. It's just a numbers game. More potential friends in a bigger school.

Our village school is teeny. Think there's only about 60 kids and 3 full teachers. I got the fear a bit looking round that DD's world would be too small. Plus I thought it would be nice for her to have school friends and village friends so she was ok if one went through a sticky patch.

All ours are mixed years. DD is in a class with reception and year 1 kids. It works fine. We chose a primary that was still small compared to ones in nearest town but just over 100 kids. Teachers know all names and recognise parents from week 2, the older children are encouraged to play with the younger ones. DD is playing with 10yo girls some days (although she gets narky when they make her be the baby haha). She loves it and is thriving. She's shy and gets overwhelmed easily so this was a good compromise.

Governor of village primary here. In our area all the village schools have mixed age classes and you would not get a reception place in a school in the nearby towns as they are full with children from nearer than us. Cluster of primaries do Events at local secondary to give wider range of activities. Echo what other posters have said about children playing with a wider age range and everyone knowing everyone but that is a feature of village life.

My DC go to a half intake school with blended classes. (Nursery/reception, Yr 1/2, Yr 3/4, Yr 5/6)

It has been a truly lovely school. Everyone so friendly. Teachers know children personally.
The blended years have been great for dc1 as he is quite advanced so has been working with the older year.

However.... He has struggled with friendships. He doesn't have a "best friend". He had a good friend he met in nursery but he was in reception at the time. This friend moved onto upper school and now my DC doesn't have that best friend and struggles. He will play alone or be on the outlines of games...which is difficult to see.

My dc2 is the opposite...she has found her "people" there's a whole group who play together and I don't think it will change as she gets older.