7+ Dulwich or wait till secondary?

[clusterduck]

Does anyone have any recent experience of how hard it is to get into Dulwich College Junior School at 7 plus? Or at 11 plus?

We were set on waiting till DS got to 11+ age but both DH and I have concerns that his state primary is not challenging enough. (Zero homework except for weekly spelling test - he is YR2) That is the one thing we agree on. Oh and that we loved DC junior school.

I think we should just bite the bullet and try to get him in at 7+. DH thinks it's a great school but indulgent and expensive.

Am currently trying to prep him for 7+ but I fear that, while he is 'exceeding expectations' at his school, the others sitting for it will be in a different league and more used to tests.

DS shows big flashes of progress (his reading is excellent) but at other times, is in a dream-like state and I suspect his exam results will be highly unpredictable.

I also think it is going to get harder and harder every year to get him into a good, selective school within striking distance of home. I fear that as he goes up in his current school, the patchiness of his education will be more apparent. I fear it will be almost impossible to get him in at 11+, even with tutoring.

DH has always been massively financially risk-averse so is freaking out at (potential) financial commitment of fees from Year 3. He points out he is a high earner and did not even finish uni. He would rather hand out the money to each DC to invest when they are older.

I read lots of threads on here with people saying it is a waste of money at primary level but I suspect London is in a different league in terms of competitive parents - including non-UK resident families.

Who is right?

Is there anyone with recent experience of the school who can sell it to me in such a way that I can convince DH that we should go for it?

Or am I wasting my time and our money in trying to cajole/encourage DS to do the worksheets?

Should we just focus on getting him through to Year 6 or is that risky - the older kids get, the harder they seem to be convince to do the extra work required and there is no way he will get that from his school.

Bump

Why don’t you try the test first? You can always decide later, depending on the result.

OP, my son got into 7+ at Dulwich College and some other schools last year. We didn't pick Dulwich College at the end due to several reasons - mainly about suitability to DS's personality.

But he was in an independent leading up to it and our additional work was minimal. The success at 7+ is only about the ability to sit a 3 hour exam. That's it. If your son has an ability to focus for 3 hours, manage his time wisely and do 1-2 pages of topic writing in 25 minutes, then he stands a good chance. Maths and comprehension I'm sure you can easily crack with enough practice. Kids are ready and able to do an exam at different ages - and you will need to figure out what that is for your son.

In terms of the money and whether it's worth it - it depends on how comfortable you will be after paying the fees. A lot of the primary level activities are "nice to have" and certainly not worth paying huge amounts of money unless you see your son excelling at one of those. The chances of getting in at 7+ and 11+ are roughly the same at DC (45 seats at 7+, more prep school students apply, vs 70+ seats at 11+ and lots of state school students apply).

Just a point of note - you may love DC now, but what happens if your/your DS's interests change drastically in those years? I would suggest keeping an open mind about the school as well.

sounds like this is a bigger issue than whether to go to DC at 7 or 11 - sounds like your dh isn't really sure about private education full stop? That's a major discussion to have!

my ds joined at 11. from a prep school. I think you would have to tutor to get the exam technique down pat if not coming from a prep. But it is do-able.

It was v random amongst ds's friends - the superstars got scholarship offers, but the merely bright were evenly split as to whether they even got invited to interview or not. V difficult to call. Definitely easier numbers wise to get a junior school place - and remember there is the 7+ and the 8+ and also random place available in year 5 and year 6.

@MrsNutella - I totally agree. There is a big chance he won’t get in (the stats for state school kids gaining entry were horrific - not blaming D.C. It’s just state schools don’t prep in the same way as... prep schools!)
@TypsTrycks thanks for your detailed reply. Out of interest where did your son go in the end? What is it about the school that didn’t fit his personality? Curious as they claimed during the tour that they try and let every boy have a go at everything and don’t even let them know their attainment grades, just their grades for effort.
At present, I have to cram in after school activities eg swimming, music, language as the school just does not offer them. If he were to go there, it would be part of his (extended) day and probably to a higher level, not requiring me to be a taxi service while wrestling with younger child. What sorts of add-ons were luxuries?
I do fear he won’t be able to totally do a three hour exam. Am trying to get him to do worksheets now and some days it’s a massive battle.
@TJsAunt how have you found DC? That is scary re the merely bright not getting a look in. I just fear that the prep school kids are not only going to highly academic schools for six hours a day, but they’re also getting private tutoring on top. At present all we can do is one hour a day with me (and not for too much longer as work may change for me) and tutoring on top. How can we stand a chance when private schools are doing this for the best part of six hours a day while our school takes a much more....relaxed approach?

Great to meet again TJsAunt! It's a trend I've noticed too at DC - some of the very bright (who presumably did very well based on post-exam discussions) were not selected whereas some who were not quite top of the class got in. I wonder if tutoring/time training made that difference.

Clusterduck, we are in exactly same position, going to sit the exam and take it from there. But I decided against Dulwich, I think their facilities are not that amazing, looks like a concrete comp mixed with temporary buildings in parts. I am having a wobble after registering DS for exams - taking a place will mean a very low chance to secure a scholarship later at 10+ or at 11+ - DS has a talent which I am also sure could get him a scholarship provided he passed the exam. We are also coming from a state school, I want to move him to private sector ASAP but also aware that most kids in his class will wait till 11+, it’s a huge saving plus possibly of a scholarship.

@clusterduck DC is a lovely school and it does actively encourage all children to get involved in all activities. For us it was very personal/subjective to choose the other school and I don’t think our experience will be relevant to most (happy to DM).

11+ kids pick up languages and sports very quickly and come up to the same level as kids who join at 7+. So if you take a long term view, they will all finish at their best possible level by end of school. Unless there is a special talent that needs to be nurtured early of course.

@TypsTrycks do feel free to DM me, thanks so much. I am worried about a huge commute so am not that keen on broadening the search too far. For reasons I can explain when you DM, not every school is as receptive to my DS applying.
I am fascinated about what you said re some of the kids not getting picked. Could it be that they are not extroverted enough during the interview? Have you noticed it's the better-off, well-spoken kids getting in or is it that they have decided to hold places for a few off the more disadvantaged kids?
@MrsNutellaToast I totally concur with your view about the building. I wouldn't mind betting they upgrade that in the next few years.
How do the academic or other scholarships work? If your DS got in just as an 'ordinary' student with no scholarship at 7+, would that mean he would not be able to qualify for one at 11+? Where have you decided to register him for exams, if not DC?
I thought the whole deal with DC junior school was that they would then have a much higher chance to get into the secondary (hence I have not even thought about any of the other prep schools).
Thanks SO MUCH everyone for all the info so far, this is all really, really useful info btw. Total outsider when it comes to the schools system xxx

That’s a tricky one. A friend on our street is the assistant admissions registrar at DC. Her main piece of advice was read! Our other neighbour got her boys in at the 7+ as it’s highly competitive at the 11+ stage. You have to remember that they will be having around 60 boys coming up from there junior school. Therefore only leaves around 60 places. We have our youngest at DUCKs and they prep them for entrance at yr 7. 75% percent of the boys from DUCKS get offered a place. My advice would be to do the 7+, make sure your little one does practice papers and get on the DC website as they have some examples in there. I should add that whilst DC is on my doorstep my older two boys are in Whitgift as that school suited them better!

Sorry made an error. DUCKs preps then for 7+ not yr 7!

@Observatorycrest thanks for your advice! I had a very friendly email exchange a while ago with their admissions team. So much more open than others I contacted. Despite the ‘elite’ reputation of the school, it seems far from snooty.
My DS’s reading is excellent and his maths is pretty good but they do zero testing at his school for anything. I do wish we had another year up our sleeve as we have really only started extra worksheets etc in the last two months. Most kids at the preps have had close to 3 years building up to this. Can I ask what made Whitgift the right choice for your boys? I’ve sort of ruled it out on the grounds of distance. DC is already a bit of a trek!

clusterduck I always liked Whitgift from the moment I walked round it as did my DC. I suppose it just felt right and also my boys are bright and very sporty and it ticked all the boxes for them. I have an age gap between my two boys too so when it was my DS2 turn to go through 11+ his older brother was already at Uni. My DS 2 had some health issues when he was younger and always had an issue with comprehension. Definitely more a Maths DC and Whitgift picked it up in his exam and had already worked out what support he would need. That was a decider for me. He does have to get two trains but loves it. Played DC at Rugby a few weeks ago and thrashed them not sure what will happen with our youngest as he will be the only one of the boys to have gone to DUCKs and we are hoping he will be offered DC at 7+..... so will see. Good luck with it all...its so bloody stressful.. just get your young one to practice sitting tests....

@ clusterduck Hello, may I ask what's your final decision? did you finally decided to choose DC?
I am going through exactly the same thing here where my boy is current at a state primary where he doesn't get any home work etc.....and i just decided to let him try our the Eltham and Dulwich 7+ (extremely nervous as we only got 3 months). Any tips you could share? Much appreciated for your opinion!