Positive effects of inclusion?

[tenthavenue]

hi my DD has a new girl in year2 class with severe SN.. the SN child has a 1to1. My DD has never been in this situation before and has talked about the child with SN making noises etc... there are some negative things online about disrupting the general education students... I'm looking for positive stories really, from parents whose general ed children have benefited from inclusion? Or at least not been adversely affected.

My child has SN and needs a high level of 1:1 (although started school fine, these have emerged over year 2, he's very high functioning). Tbh I haven't seen any positive effects of inclusion for him. He has no friends, other children at best ignore him or at worst laugh at him and I feel like he's a total burden on the school despite receiving extra funding for support. All my parent friends have stopped speaking to me. I guess they see him as naughty and naughty children have bad parents.

(Apologies for derailing, I'm feeling a bit sensitive this evening!)

Mainstream school is (necessarily) set up to meet the needs of MOST children. And it does that pretty well. There are then places of specialist provision to meet the needs of SOME children. And those settings do that pretty well. There are always going to be some children who fit into neither the 'most' or the 'some'. Those children will almost always have parents who have scoured the earth for the provision which best meets the needs for their particularly unique set of circumstances. Sometimes that means within mainstream with 1:1 support because that meets the child's needs the most.

Sorry I'm another one who sees no positive in 'inclusion' . It seems like a cheaper way of educating children with SEN but I worry it's failing both them and the NT kids.

I think you are looking for benefits to your child of someone with severe SN joining the class? I would say that my kids have benefitted from seeing the world how it is. One of them has become technically disabled age 8 and being familiar wth disability has been helpful in coming to terms with that. Not sure about the benefit to the child with severe sen of being in mainstream but I don’t think that’s what you were asking.

In our case inclusion helped me teach my NT children that its ok to be different and we are all unique in our own ways...some people need extra help and attention due to their difficulties and thats ok!

I believe SEN kids should be able to access all community provisions and not be locked away in special schools...how else will they and the rest of society learn to live side by side?!

Having said that!!! I chose to put my SEN child into a specialist provision because i wanted to avoid:
1- schools treating us like a burden
2- parents treating us like criminals
3- kids treating my child like he's an alien from out of space (seen it happening before)

Our school, which I do think is very good at inclusion of all types embraces all the children in our community. Both of my children have benefited from having children with high levels of sen and 1:1 support in their classes as well as others with lesser sen and lesser support. They have learnt about everybody being different, they have learnt to be caring and patient. In the case of my older child I would say the whole classes energy and the long term nature of the children has been really positively impacted. They will go into the world better citizens. I definitely think it can be positive if we’ll managed. I also think it needs regular reviewing as in our case there came a point for both of those children where their needs were better met by a school with specialist provision and that transfer was handled very well I think for everyone. I am very pro - where it can be supported/ resourced properly.

I am lucky ds goes to an amazing school. He has 1-1 and they really do go out of their way to make sure he is as fully included as he can be/wants to be. Long term we know he won’t be able to continue at mainstream into secondary but with the support of School we are hopeful he can for the rest of primary.

We have had a lot of positive experiences of the empathy and understanding other children can show (same some parents aren’t as good!)

My daughter now in year 4 has some classmates with autism (mild to severe) and she is good friends with them. The one with mild autism is somewhat excluded from the cool kids which is not nice at all and I think she recognises this. I am grateful she isn't in a set group of friends

Sorry I'm another one who sees no positive in 'inclusion' . It seems like a cheaper way of educating children with SEN but I worry it's failing both them and the NT kids.

I do think that in some cases this is true. However, my DC have all had children with SEN in their mainstream primary classes and it was never an issue. They learnt how to help these children where needed and see them as children who just find some things difficult. I come from a generation where children with sen were either hidden away or, in the case of ASD/ADHD labelled as naughty and punished. My children are far more accepting and understanding than I was at the same age.

My experience has been similar to others. A class full of NT kids resents having to make concessions for one kid with SEN. The overworked teacher is focused on catering to the majority and the kid with SEN doesn’t really receive adequate support. Everyone gets annoyed if the kid with SEN is disruptive. Pupils with physical disabilities are generally catered for quite well and kids can be very kind. But pupils with mental or behavioural difficulties are quite often ostracised by other kids and treated as a burden. I do think the system worked better when we had special schools to meet the additional needs of kids with SEN.

My Kids have had children with SEN in their classes and there have been many positives. The children were very inquisitive as in both cases the differences were behavioural and very obvious but very accepting. I think it encouraged a lovely side to the kids that they were all to empathise and act kindly once they understood why the child was different. The odd small amount of noise or minor distraction wasn't a big deal.

The only danger I saw was for the child with SEN themselves being properly catered for in the specialised way they needed.

My son has a full time 1:1 in the classroom. The other children know he is different but they play with him and help him - some of them are very caring, i think it is important for children to help others and accept those who are different. However my son has no behavioural issues. The class as a whole benefits from his 1:1 as I know she helps others in the class too (eg when my son is getting on with his work, she supports others) and the teacher benefits from the extra adult who knows all the children, this is her third year with the class.

Similar to sausage really. I must admit I hadn't really thought about what my ds brings to his class. He attends school to receive an education, like any other kid. I am sure, like most kids, he brings some positives to his class and some negatives.

My son has just started Y7 but since reception all through primary school has had various SN children in his school and in his class. For him it has been wholly positive. It has taught him that not everyone is the same, that some people need more help with certain things, that you include everyone. Can't say anything negative really. He really miss one friend in particular who has now gone to a secondary school tailored for him.

Our school is strong on inclusion and has quite a high proportion of SEN. I'm with SoupDragon - I think it makes children more accepting of difference, and teaches them to work through minor distractions - useful lessons for later life too.

My sons school has a lot of SEN too and that includes me own son. In his year there are probably ten if not more children out of sixty that have some form of SEn and tbh it makes the other children accepting of the differences as with a lot of children they have grown up around the SEn children and just see it as part of them.
some of the SEN children are also high achievers though, including my own, and it has meant that curriculum is now more in place to extend the curriculum.

I think as a parent I would try and work on the positives inclusion can have for your child. Things like developing empathy, patience, recognising everyone is different, being flexible that others may need things that they are not allowed, learning about additional communication (signing or symbols etc).

Hopefully the school has put enough in place to enable them to be able to support the student with SEN without having a negative impact on the other students.

I don't think SN children bring any more positives or negatives to a class than any other children really - and its such a broad term anyway.
Just go with the flow - she will get used to noises.

It completely depends on the nature of the SEN. If it is continually disruptive, then other children will tire of the distractions. Everyone here mentions SEN which are a relatively mild or physical. Few are ever posting about hugely disruptive children or children with great learning difficulties who cannot access the curriculum because they are low functioning. They too have SEN. The children with emotional and behaviour problems rarely have friends and their parents are frequently ostracised. They are often in mainstream because there is nowhere else for them to go but frequently mainstream provision is not going to meet their needs.

In my LA, we have quite a few special schools. It is far better for the most needy children to go to a special school. There is also a reason why so many children with SEN are now excluded: schools cannot manage their complex needs. Special schools have a much higher staffing ratio and specially trained staff.

When I was working in this field (admittedly quite a few years ago now) we found many parents wanted mainstream. Lots of charities were pushing parents into mainstream and against specialist provision. The schools would then exclude. Frequently after years of negotiation and parents wanting a y2 child to stay in YR for example. There is only so much a school can do with a child with a very low IQ and others that are violent.

Your children may not think violent children are so lovely if they ever encounter them. Or what about one DC attacking his mum with a knife? I have a feeling that the caring classmates might not be so caring after that. Or being sent out of the classroom for safety because DC is throwing chairs. I agree that many SEN children will flourish in mainstream but others really do need specialist schools.

It’s hard to say being honest, because it depends on the needs of the child. On the whole it’s taught my children that everyone is different and being different is not a bad thing. It’s taught them that everyone has different needs, things they are good at and things they find difficult. It’s taught them empathy and compassion. It’s taught them patience and acceptance.

However there was one child who had complex needs and he was prone to being violent when things became to overwhelming for him. The problem was this could be directed at another child or an adult. As much as I mentioned the teaching of compassion, empathy etc. There is only so many times a child can be hit or witness someone being hit, before those qualities are replaced with fear. They then don’t want to play with them, and the child then becomes excluded.

We tell adults that should someone become physical with them to walk away, leave them etc. Is it fair to say to a child ‘don’t worry about yesterday they said sorry, now go and play together’.

But to group all children with special needs together, when a lot are able to attend mainstream school, teaches nothing. Once they leave education they have to deal with the world. They can not be protected anymore. Therefore the inclusion into mainstream education is positive.

My son attended a special school for children with severe learning disabilities. It was mooted that he attended a local primary school for at least part of the week. I was definitely against the idea; it may well have been a positive experience for the children in mainstream education but I couldn’t see what he would get from it. The fact that my child might teach yours empathy and compassion meant diddly squat; he was not exhibit A.

It depends on the individual case. My friend's son does better in mainstream providing he gets supportthe level of education in the special school he attended for a while was so low and academic expectations were very minimalhe can do better and does do better in mainstream. But he needs extra support. Like a lot of kids with a middling level of SEN, his issues are the kind of issues that are partly developmental in nature and are gradually getting better.

On the other hand, nothing is achieved by kids being kept in mainstream when it clearly is not working for them. If cognitive issues or other problems are severe beyond a certain point, they need specialist provision for their own sake and for everyone else's. I have seen kids left in mainstream who are learning nothing and ruining everyone else's education as well.

The important thing is that there are enough alternative provision sites and special schools so that the choice can actually made, and we do not end up with kids dumped in mainstream classrooms (or in the corridors and headteacher's office, more often than not!) because there is nowhere else for them to go.

Comparisons to things like racism make me roll my eyes about. There are no good reasons for segregating children on the grounds of race. There can be good reasons for separate provision due to SEN or other factors, depending on the individual situation.

The trouble is BigBlueBubble that there are so many different types of SEND that it’s pretty much impossible to have schools that will cater for each individual type.

A child with ASD has needs that are different from a NT child with a learning disability, or one with severe dyslexia or dyspraxia, or any other condition.

Some mainstream schools manage very well to include children with a range of SEND, some not so much. But specialist schools are few and far between and it is naturally difficult to get a place.

I agree it teaches tollerance and inclusion. Also it teaches children that there are things which are more important than SATs and achievement. Qualities which children have beyond those measured in school. One of dd's friends went to a specialist secondary school, she was more compassionate and empathetic than many other dc in dd's class, not because of her SEN but because that was her.

I noticed that further up thread someone mentioned parents wanting to push into mainstream. I just wanted to add that's not always the case some parents know there child isn't suited to mainstream but LA doesn't agree as the child is making a little progress (given right provision could make way more progress) a child has to completely fail ( LAs wording not mine, they want them making no progress at all) before they will agree to put the child in a specialist school.