DD age 7 struggling with reading and numbers

[LemonBreeland]

DD has just turned 7 and is in Primary 3 in Scotland. She has really struggled with reading since starting school. It took her ages to learn her letter sounds and never fully mastered double letter sounds. She started back at school last week and we have her first reading book this week. She is on ORT level 8 and just can't read the book. She still sounds out every single word and will struggle with lots of them. Scho just seem to keep putting her on higher levels of book when she hasn't even grapsed the basics. She is my third child so I have experience of learning to read.

She has no concept of what she is reading. There is no understanding of the story as the level is too hard for her.

Similarly in maths she has struggled to learn her numbers, doesn't know much past 20 and will still write numbers back to front sometimes.

I am going to make an appointment to speak to her teacher, but I don't know what I want from her really. Reassurance that it can be normal to be like this? Hope that it will click eventually?

Any advice gratefully received. Particularly anyone who may have had a similar child.

She seems like a very bright articulate child to talk to, which just makes me confused as to why she struggles so much.

Anyone?

Bump for you OP

(Sorry I can't advise, but I know what it's like to worry)

I can understand why you're worried and think you're right to arrange to see the teacher to discuss your concerns.

Ds was a late reader but the school said not to worry as some children - particularly boys - don't "get" it until they're 6. They were right: he was 6 and 3/4, Easter in P2, when he finally "got" reading (and that was after lots of 1:1 from the depute at the beginning of P2). But he was always good with his numbers.

It does seem like your dd needs some more support, so you should just articulate your concern the way you have here.

Thanks prettbird DS2 was also slow to 'get' reading. He could sound the words but it clicked with him over the summer before P3 and he suddenly found the joy of reading. DD has had intervention in P2 with a classroom assistant but it doesn't appear to have pusbed her on at all.

DS2 is also a bright, articulate child, but his reading has been very slow. He's going into year 3,which is primary 4 in Scotland. Last year the SENCo and his teacher printed out words for him, every morning when he woke up he had to read the word, spell it, cut it out, spell it again, then I'd stick it on his bedroom wall. He's come on in leaps and bounds.

Maybe discuss an assessment for dyslexia? Sounds very like my DS who was diagnosed as profoundly dyslexic at 7.

We have been doing toe by toe at home since Easter and he has made lots of progress.

You could be describing my child, sounds just the same. I too find it hard to understand.
However in this case the teachers have shown concern too and have advised formal testing for dyslexia, which we have arranged, so we will see what comes of it. Perhaps it is worth asking the teacher if they think dyslexia is a possibility.

Hi LemonBreeland I wouldn't worry at all everyone learns to read at different times! I would definitely speak to the school as it sounds like she might be getting left behind through no fault of her own (or yours!). Sounds like she might need to go back to basics? How is she with simple letter sounds? I was recommended www.readwithphonics.com by a girlfriend, they have a load of games on there you can play for free. If you want to save progress I think you have to pay £7 or something, I haven't done that yet but probably will as my little one gets a bit older. What is great about it and might work for you is that each word is sounded out and blended back constantly so it really helps with that. Might be worth a try?

Thanks for all of the comments. I was starting to wonder about dyslexia, but I don't know that much about it. I will definitely raise my concerns with her teacher and see where we go from there.

It is just painful to see her struggle with every word in a book and it takes us 20 minutes to do 3 or 4 pages.

My dd is dyslexic and dyscalculic. She struggled to learn to read and at 7 or 8 could not reliably count to 20. She got help at primary and was diagnosed dyslexic before age 7 although verbally very strong. I used to do a fair bit after school with her - tracing letters / sounds in shaving foam. Flash cards stuck ro7nd the kitchen, pair games, jumping onto number cards - loads & loads of stuff. Her main issues are slow processing and poor working memory. She has to over learn stuff to get it into the right place in the “filing cabinet in my brain” (how she describes it). We had regular meetings with learning support at primary school and early liaison with learning support at secondary. You need to contact the school and push for help. We have found that there is no point in being quiet and expecting school to intervene automatically- you must kick up a fuss and continue doing that into secondary too. Dd has just passed her Nat5s - As in English & history and is embarking on higher but we still have to push the school to ensure proper support. Good luck!

Thanks haggisaggis I am prepared to be a pushy parent. School know me well as I used to chair the parent council.

It does sound that there might be more going on than just being a reluctant reader. If you can afford it, I'd look for a private assessment. It will open all sorts of doors for her.

If you’ve not already done so, get her eyesight and hearing checked over. She is too young to express if either are a problem as whatever they are like is her normal.
An acquaintance of mine had this with her eight year old and the child’s eyesight was majorly impaired. The child meanwhile thought everyone saw words through a haze and that she was just thick (in her words). Once she had the correct glasses, she came on in leaps and bounds.

She isn't reluctant at all, she is happy to do her reading, she just finds it really hard.

Her eyes have been checked and are fine, she hasn't had a hearing test since she was little though.

Another perspective (I Home educate). My son turning 7 was a non- reader and writer. I worried a lot, did a lot with him and nothing worked. Then just before he turned 8 he became a really good reader, he reads for fun and age- appropriately or even a bit higher. He plows through our local library! Writing came on the heels of reading, he can write a page of neat joined up sense suddenly. In his seventh birthday he was in reception/ year 1 ORT levels.
My older two read early so I did panic, but now at 8 he’s on a par of where they were and they have done very well academically with successfully completing university courses recently.
It’s important to just keep reading for pleasure and lot and keeping the door open to allow sudden leaps. He has no signs of dyslexia, he just seemed to learn in all very differently. His use of phonics is a bit poor, he’s I think used memory of word patterns a lot, context etc.... but it’s lead to excellent comprehension of text doing it this way.

Have you tried doing some different activities at home? Reading eggs and math seeds are good. She'll start with a test that sets her level and then there's interactive activities. Try a free trial?

Sloeberries that is interesting thank you. I haven't pushed it with school before now as I know they all develop differently. DD is also left handed which is why I wasn't worried about writing numbers back to front.

Your comments on phonics not working does resonate, DD hasn't done well with phonics, although I'm not sure we have found her learning style yet.

"He has no signs of dyslexia, he just seemed to learn in all very differently. His use of phonics is a bit poor"

"The most distinguishing feature of dyslexia is poor phonological awareness, which manifests in an inability to identify and blend together individual phonemes in words. Clinical expectations of phonemic awareness vary depending on an individual’s age. Individuals who have difficulties in phonemic awareness may have difficulties producing rhymes and recognizing words that rhyme, counting phonemes in a word (segmenting), deleting, adding, or moving sounds around in a word (elision), and hearing sounds in isolation and blending them together to form a word (blending).
The lack of phonemic awareness had been found to be a high predictor of a reading disability. Phonemic awareness is often confused with phonics and it is important to make sure that you have a clear understanding of each and do not confuse the two. The systematic teaching of phonemic awareness is critical for individuals diagnosed with dyslexia. Phonological awareness skills can be taught at any age and have been shown to improve decoding, reading fluency, reading comprehension, and spelling."
"Another strong indicator of dyslexia is rapid naming, also called word fluency. Rapid naming is the ability to name symbols, words, or pictures rapidly. This discriminating skill is based on speed, not accuracy. Poor readers are usually able to name symbols, words and pictures accurately, but they are characteristically slower than skilled readers. They may have more difficulty naming words than naming numbers. Another indicator of a reading disability is difficulty reading nonsense words which would indicate difficulty with decoding as it relates to phonics and phonemic awareness. When reading a nonsense word such as fornalask, an individual with difficulties with the phonemic awareness skill of blending may know the phonics of how to decode each sound correctly, but may not be able to blend the sounds together to produce the nonsense word."

It does sound a lot like DN who is 8 and recently diagnosed with Dyslexia. Absolutely bright as a button to talk to. My sister has a fight on her hands to get any appropriate interventions though.

Have to question why she's been given ORT 8 though. That must be excruciating for her if she's struggling and still needs to do a lot of sounding out.

I would suggest requesting she goes back a bit in levels to boost her confidence (or get some books yourself to do that with, or ask school if she can double up it and bring home an easier one she can read herself and the harder one that you can read together with her doing the words she can and you helping decode others so she still feels she is moving forwards rather than think she is being put back). dyslexia obviously flags up but one of mine I swear is dyslexic (and dyspraxic, and dysgraphic) but has never tested as such. I ended up taking the approach that diagnosed or otherwise chances were the dyslexia help stuff would help her so we did a dyslexia reading programme at home, and a spelling one which we are still having to use years later but we are getting there slowly. It really helped her. I found there was no point waiting for the school to help her as they just kept saying "wait a bit, she is still young" etc when I knew something wasn't right and actually 7 isn't that young in my opinion when you can see other children that age clearly making progress and your child isn't.

How lovely to see that you now recognise dyslexia mrz

lemon (and sloe) - I am a specialist dyslexia teacher and assessor. The difficulties you describe would be possible indicators for dyslexia. No two individuals with dyslexia have the same profile of strengths and difficulties, so I would recommend a private assessment if you can afford it.

Look on the PATOSS website for a private assessor - they will have a level 7 qualification and an assessment Practising certificate. An independent assessment is likely to be cheaper than going through the British Dyslexia Association (who often use exactly the same assessors, but charge more)

I've always recognised that some children have difficulties it's the term "dyslexia" (and the huge industry making money from those difficulties ) that I don't find helpful especially as it's often wrongly used to label any and all reading problems.

mrz -no-one I know is making vast sums of money. Without exception, every assessor I have met has a family member with dyslexia who has had to struggle through the education system (we are all qualified teachers who have worked in the system) and has therefore decided to retrain. A MA in SpLD takes 2 years ( and is often self funded) so is not something you do on a whim.

Any way glad you are now on board

My position is the same as it's always been.

My position is the same as it's always been.

If you say so