Accepting, declining with a view to later admission

[TheVanguardSix]

Weird thread title, I am sorry!

I have to make a decision today.

DS starts reception in September.
He got a place at DD’s school- big, impersonal but well managed 3 form free school, quite new so still has some teething issues and a weak SEN programme which is an issue, a distance from home (next to dad’s work, so a car journey of about 10 minutes). But it has an outstanding OFSTED and feeds into its own excellent secondary school which DC1 attends.

Little school around the corner, where DS went to nursery and thrived like mad, has lots of space in reception. It’s an under-subscribed school. Excellent, happy experience for infants but junior years leave a lot to be desired. Good OFSTED, not a great reputation locally- the junior years are, as I mentioned, problematic. But it’s around the corner, small, happy, friendly, and the transition would be emotionally far easier for DS.

We’ve accepted the place at the free school but have been offered a place now at the local school- which we thought would be the right way forward.

Our plan would be to send him to the little local school, transfer him by year 2 to the free school. But having accepted then rejected the free school, I worry that we’ll have an issue trying to get him in there later when he’s older and more ready for a big, 3 form school environment.

Any input would be so appreciated. I’ve agonised about this all summer.
I want him to go to the local school and move him when he’s a junior. Is it as big a deal as I’m making it out to be? I worry that the free school will not be accommodating in the future if we renege on their current offer and our acceptance of the placement then try and get him in there at a later date?

God, and they say this school malarkey gets easier with each child! His SEN colour our decision making. Thank you for your advice!

What's the SEN provision like at the small local school?

Would he definitely get a place at the bigger school if you moved him for juniors?

Won't it be tougher on him to move schools in Y2 than now, for Reception?

Thank you so much for your post.

So SEN provisions are much better at the smaller school.
I’m not sure why but the junior years have a poor reputation at the smaller school- lots of bullying issues (which the school has a bad reputation for). The early years at the smaller school are idyllic and wonderful. I have no idea why it turns so sour once they move up.

His day would be shorter and less stressful at the smaller school. He’d be very close to home.

He’ll definitely move up into the secondary free school from the primary free school if he goes there.

Because DD is at the primary free school, I’ve been able to observe more closely what the environment is like. My worry is that it’s just so intense for the little ones. It’s quite a crowded environment and a longer day by 45 minutes, plus they have a tiny outdoor space- and less outdoor play.
It’s very urban whereas the local, smaller school is in a very green, open space.

I'm not sure which one is the free school, is that your DD's?

It may well be full so a move is not guaranteed in time for juniors. Presumably you can cope with two children being in two different places at the same time because you do that already (unless nursery starts at a different time?).

Yes, so the free school is where DD is (going into year 4). And DS has been at the nursery attached to the small, local primary school.

There is no guarantee he’ll get a place at DD’s school if we put him on the waiting list later.

Thank you again for responding, both of you.

Teachers at both schools are absolutely stellar.

What happens if you don’t get a place at the better school in Year 2? It won’t be yours for the asking, unless it’s not filled to capacity now?
You’d have to be prepared for the worst case scenario of leaving him in the school around the corner for the whole of juniors; and how disastrous you think this might be.

I’d lean towards a better Sen provision. Speaking after a bitter experience at local school which is ofsted outstanding the Sen provision is woeful and as a family has caused so much stress.

There’s no reason you couldn’t transfer only if places weren’t available I imagine.

If the teachers are stellar at the local school, how does it move from idyllic to crap once they reach Year 2?
I’d take that with a pinch of salt; it sounds like the perspectives of 2 different people, neither may be actually correct and it’s fairly subjective anyway.

Sounds like the little school would be better for him. I'd send him there and wait and see. Three years is a long time for a school, you don't know how things might change.

Alot could happen in the next few years.

Honestly I would worry that perhaps the reputation of the school is inaccurate.

Either you just haven't heard of the bullying in infants or the junior school really isnt that bad

Its the same kids after all. They don't wake up on September the 5th on the day they start juniors and turn into rampaging bullies they were there all along.

Your needs from the school will be different to someone else's needs. How many people have you spoken to about the local school?

That’s the crux of the matter right there. DS could just stay at the small, local school which could be fine... or not. A place at the free school is not a given. And his sister going there may not be enough to secure him a place in the future. They’re not so hot on sibling priority in this respect: they’ll take the child who lives next to the free school over the child who has a sibling at the school but lives just outside the catchment (us! We weren’t always outside the catchment but we are now).
Juniors could end up being fine at the smaller school- but it could be the worst case scenario too. And DS is a prime candidate for bullying. He has quite a speech impediment which I imagine will improve with time and continued support. But the whispers about the junior years worries me. It’s an undersubscribed school for this reason.

We moved our children out of a "good" Ofsted ("crap" Kallax) rated primary into a much smaller infants which was much more nurturing and has far better SEN provision.

It's a gamble (particularly with the child in the bigger birth-year year group) as it means we're banking on an out of catchment application to the attached junior school which I won't take as a certainty until I've got the offer in my inbox and accepted on their system and we definitely struggled with it for a while - but decided we could have a couple of years of a crappy time now in return for certainty later, or have them somewhere that fitted perfectly now - without the certainty for later. I do have a tentative plan B though if we don't get a place (I think we probably will looking at how numbers are).

You need a plan B basically. Take the gamble for the better early start for your child AS LONG AS you've got a backup if your ideal circumstances for after Y2 don't fall into place.

What are the actual admissions criteria for the free school? You say they’re not so hot on sibling priority - is this an admissions criteria?

They will have to admit in line with their published criteria, they don’t get to pick and choose. They cannot turn down an application because you have previously rejected them. If they have a space and you apply, they have to give it to you.

Ah you are all the best! Thank you!

The little school would unquestionably be better for him, is my gut feeling.

I live next to the school and the kids seem really nice, normal, happy kids. So the feedback I got are from parents whose kids went to the smaller school 15 years ago. But also from current parents who I would describe as lovely with valid insight but perhaps a bit more ‘precious’. Still, their unhappiness was/is valid and it’s important to honour this. I would not have pulled my child out of the smaller school for the reasons they did, I’ll admit.

There you go then. Little school and use your own eyes to judge. You'll probably find the little school comes out just fine.

I worry a bit with the free school because when we applied for DD, they reneged on their online terms of admission. So we were in the catchment and DC1 was at the secondary school affiliated with the primary school. So we had the sibling policy in place and it was on the website. We got a call telling us DD had been moved waaaay down on the waiting list because they’d abolished sibling priority. Because they hadn’t updated their website, they honoured the previous terms and DD got in. The sibling policy was reinstated apparently.

So because of those loosely-goosey-change-horses-in-mid-stream antics, I’m a bit afraid to trust that DS would get a place there in the future.

I’ll just go with smaller school.
It is true I suppose. The free school can’t say, “Sorry, you turned down our offer and now you want in?”.

But actually there’s a real chance DS may be fine at the smaller school throughout.

Well If that's the case I think you have pretty much made up your mind.

Some parents are never happy and always find fault. And what works for one child may not work for another .

I think bullying happens at most schools to a degree it's more important how it's dealt with. And some years will always be more difficult to manage than others.

The one thing I will say is although you don't feel you would remove your kid for the same reasons others did. I think it's also important to not stick it out if things do go bad out of loyalty or sympathy for the others involved.

But from the sound of it you are really hot on what your ds needs and have no worries about moving him so I think you and he will be just fine

That sounds...questionable. There are strict rules about how admissions criteria can be set, including how and when they can be changed. Hopefully one of the more knowledgable posters will be along soon and may be able to answer.

Is it a true catchment, i.e. a defined area drawn on a map where you get priority if you live within the boundaries?

The big issue is whether or not you have a chance of getting into the bigger school in year 2 or for year 3.
As the bigger school has a PAN of 90 any appeal for year 1 or 2 will be an infant class size case, which you have very little chance of winning as no mistakes have occurred.
If you apply for a place from June onwards in year 2 then the appeal will be for a place for year 3 starting in September. This will not be an infant class size case but a normal prejudice argument. Whilst you have a better chance of success at appeal, it is still a risk and you do need to accept that it is a well-worn path for parents to take to look to change schools at the end of year 2, so there could be a lot of parents appealing for a place.
The larger school will not feel aggrieved at any decision you make now but any admission appeal panel will be asking why your child is changing schools. A better Ofsted and the fact that it will get you a place at the secondary school will not be sufficient to get you a place at the larger school.,you need more specific reasons related to your child, which on the face of it seem not to be realistic for the larger school.

The other question for me is what is the real level of SEN your child has. If there is significant level of SEN, then I would be looking to get an EHC Plan in the smaller school and then look to transfer. By having an EHC Plan you can request (name) whichever school you want and usually get a place at that school. But getting an EHC Plan might be more difficult than you may think.
So whatever you decide it is a risk but my gut feeling from your comments is to go for the local school.

So at present they have ‘no catchment area’ (but they sort of do in that they take applicants who live closest to the school gates). We live 2 miles from the school.
So the closer the applicant lives (in a straight line) to the school gate, the more certainty of a place for that applicant.

DS has come so far in terms of his needs and I credit so much of this to the fantastic nursery staff at the smaller primary school. The nursery nurse will be his reception TA and his nursery teacher will be the early years lead as of September. And the kiddies hugged him every day when he came into nursery. A cheering squad of 4 year olds will win anyone over!

You’re all so incredibly kind and insightful. I really, really appreciate your balanced views and wisdom!

Be careful of the “no actual catchment area, but we unofficially favour children from X school” thing.

It’s not part of the published admissions procedure, so it’ll be unenforceable should it not work in your favour.

Ok, so is the criteria along the lines of:

Looked after children
Medical and social need
Siblings of children at the school
Everyone else, with distance as a tie breaker?

For in year admissions, the criteria don’t really play a part, but they determine how the waiting list will be kept. If it’s as above, then you may have a reasonable chance of being at the top of the waiting list when you apply later, however it depends on how oversubscribed it is, how many people live closer than you (assuming it is a distance tie break), and how much movement there is such that spaces become available.

So having previously applied will have no bearing on a later application. It simply comes down to numbers and spaces, and possible appeal situations outlined by Admission.

Thank you admission!

Yes, so he’s not got a statement and it’s unlikely that he will be statemented (is that a word?).

He’s on the spectrum but in the past year, his development has been brilliant. He started nursery with major speech delay and comprehension difficulties (not diagnosed as receptive language disorder but totally this!).

He also spent lots of time stimming and this would shut him off from his environment.

High functioning autism is what he’s been labelled as but not officially diagnosed because he’s shown progress which has resulted in far less stimming/hand flapping and a huge leap in speech and comprehension. So the paediatric team is observing. All of this wonderful progress aside, he still is developmentally behind his peers, which the smaller school (and parents) are aware of. There’s a sense of peace and safety that comes with this. I feel supported.

Having said this, DS’s future reception free school teachers came all the way to meet him and spend an afternoon with him at nursery, talking at length with his teachers and me. So that right there is a big deal and really has me feeling good about him being under their guidance if he goes to the free school.

So. I am a bit thrown. The teachers at both schools are superb.

Thank you EduCated and lama!!!
Goodness, thank you all!