SCHOOL ADMISSIONS- anyone given a FALSE ADDRESS and prepared to ADMIT it ??

[noonar]

ok, here's my dilemma: i have 2 dds aged nearly 3 and 5. one is at a fab school, the other due to start in sept 08. the trouble is, we want to move house, as we currently live on a v busy street, are are keen to be somewhere quieter.

we have our hearts set on a semi rural location, 15 mins drive from the school. this would mean that dd2 would not get into her sister's school, as we'd be outside the 2 mile radius for 'sibling links'.

we don't want the dds to go to the village school, as dd1's current school is outstanding, esp as far as multicultural ed is concerned. also, dd1 is happy there, and we'd only be moving a short drive away.

it seems crazy that we'd have to lie in order for dd2 to attend the same school.

my SIL and mum live in the catchment area for dd1's school. IF we think about putting their address on dd2's form, what day to day problems are we likely to encounter, as far as keeping up the pretence goes?

any advice from anyone brave enough to share their exp of this kind of situation?

i realize that this is a controversial subject (so please dont all jump on me!) but i really do think that our case is quite exceptional. after all, my main objective is to keep dd1 at her school, NOT to get her into a school at which she is not entitled to a place.

also, different neighbouring village which we are interested in, which has a good school, has no places for dd1, so getting them both into the same school, even 'legitimately' is proving nearly impossible for us, atm.

apologies to anyone who's had enough of me and my house moving saga!

tia

If this was just a case of getting dd2 into the school then I would live with delaying the move. But actually it seems that there is more to it - you'll have to lie on 3 applciation forms over a 4 or 5 year period.

you say in your OP that your main aim is to keep dd1 where she is. If that is true, and your aim is not to get dd2 into a school which she is not entitles to go, then is there any way of sorting out the drop-off/pick-up times?

I'd rethink moving in order for my children to go to the school I wanted. People do the false address thing all the time - we all know that - but I'd feel awkward about doing it.

I'm namechanging here,as some people who work with me know my usual name.
I work at a junior school & we were recently trying to encourage some of the persistently late children to get here a bit earlier.

The Bursar asked one who turned up at five past nine why it took so long to get here from Nearby Road. He said, "No, I come on the bus from Nexttown" This wouldn't have been a problem in itself as we have a few children who have moved to Nexttown & they don't get chucked out, but when the bursar asked him when he'd moved & said his mum needed to fill in a new form so we had the right address, he said - I've always lived there! Turned out his parents had given the grandparent's address to get him into the infant school.

The bursar hasn't said anything yet, but I know the child has a younger sibling at the infant school, who is in a very big year and will be coming up soon, presumably with the same false address. So should she say anything when he applies, or let it go so the child can be at school with their sibling?

A tricky one. I'm trying to think what I'd do. I think you'd have to say something. Duty to the school if nothing else. Parents really shouldn't put their children in this sort of situation.

I think if they now know abotu the deceit they have to make it clear to the parnets that the application iwll eb atrated as out of area, be it with a sibling link (so may at least get considered ahead of those who are applying out of area with no link). If another parent complained it would bring the application process into disrepute otherwise.

What would the school do I wonder? Because under the siblings rule, they'd have higher priority than area. And the older sibling shouldn't by rights be in the school (I'm presuming they were well out of catchment). I've heard of cases where children are removed from reception classes when it's discovered their parents have lied about their address but never from further up the school.

Sorry to sound harsh but here goes - You have to wait. There is NOTHING exceptional about your circumstances, you are just trying to justify your behaviour to yourself. You can't ask your children to lie. You can't risk having a school place withdrawn. You just can't move until next year. Get over it!

Difficult one - I would have no compunction in doing it, but you would have to do it properly and make it appear that you do live at your Mums (better than Auntie, more beleiveable). Does she have enough rooms for you all?

My mother has her house permanently set up with rooms for us and the kids so it would be easy to move a bit more stuff in and live there for a bit.

You would probably also need to be on the elctoral roll for safety, and maybe get a library card or something with that address; bank statements are also a good bet. Then, around about application time you would need to be seen going in and out regualry etc, and also at the time of the home visit. You could then legitamately move out to your new pad.

When time comes for dd1 to get into the Junior school, you may need to move back eg a 'break up with partner', get all the things (elctoral roll etc) updated even go as far as to put old house on market or something ...

Is it really worth all that hassle and the worry over all that time?

I am moving my kids schools beacuse things are so uncertain where they are now and we didn't know what would happen in future; I could not live with that after doing it for 2 years, can you?

Can you not find a house in a place you like and with a good school for both the girls?

Whatever you decide, good luck!

Seems like an awful lot of deceit over a long period of time. It would make me feel that the children's school days were tainted by lies and dishonesty. And you will get found out. How awful for your children.

ok, thanks for the supportive posts i have received.

just to respond to a few criticisms:

1. the village in question is actually 3rd on our list of places to live. we really want to live in a different village, and embrace village life, and go to the local school. we can't. there is no school place for dd1. so this particular village is not really our dream village at all, but as its close to the school, we thought we might be able to kep dd1 there.

2. i dont expect my children to lie long term! the idea is to use another address at 'admission time' and then 'move' again, after a convincing amount of time has passed.

3. as rusty points out, children who attend an all through primary could move miles away, and still be entitled to a place as they move into the juniors. this is unfair. you may not think this makes my case exceptional, but it cannot be compared with someone who has never lived in an area lying to get in to a school, surely. i just want my dd to be able to attend the same school for the next few years. a child at a neighbouring primary could do exactly what i'm proposing, no questions asked.

4. i cant simply wait till next year to move, because, due to the junior school situation described above, this will be an ongoing problem.

5. actually, all i want to do is live in a village and be near my mum so that she can see the girls. it's just a shame that the only village school round here with places is an underachieving one that i'm not keen on. maybe this sounds to you as if i want to have my cake and eat it, but the reason why i'm considering this is that the local villages with good schools are full.

this has alot to do with family, tbh. i feel hugely pressured into not moving too far away. i just dont feel like i have many options, at the moment.

sorry . am stressed. have lost the ability to count.

Only skimmed the thread so not sure if its mentioned already. When I applied to put DD down for our local school we had to supply a copy of our child benefit or whatever its called so they had proof of DD's name at our address. Also had to provide a council tax bill so they had proof of our name at same address. It would have been impossible for us to put a false address even if it was a relative as all the proof they requested would not have tied up.

So is this a different scenario to the one you previously posted about, where dd2 might end up at different school to dd1 due to lack of space for her ? Do any children from that village attend dd1's school at present ? What of the schools in nearby villages and then secondary ?

Noonar,I'm sorry,you sound like you're having a rough time and trying to do the best by everyone.

i used to allocate school places for the local council. and you'd be surprised at how much detective work some schools out in (not prompted by the council)
we used to ask for 2 proofs of address for schools either over subscribed for catchment or siblings as standard. but if the school were supsicious, some would even get the children to do little bits of work about where they lived. they couldn't use it as 'evidence' but did let them know if they were barking up the right tree.
we also had people that were 'snitched on' by friends and relatives.

i would tread very carefully

BTW, in this area some schools allocate to catchment children before out catchment siblings, including all community schools. meaning that some out catchment siblings don't get a place

sorry, meant to add electoral role was first port of call.

Noonar - you sound very very worried about all this, but the amount of lying and covering your back that will be involved will lead to even more stress.

The constant watching your back, double checking, "moving" back and forth.

Appeal. The church school thing would be a big issue for me - I am pagan and would not want my children at a church school.

I appreciate why you're considering this, the whole school admissions thing hurts my head and I haven't even started on it yet.
But.. DS can't go to our nearest school 0.3 miles away it's so heavily oversubscribed. They don't have the 2 mile sibling link here, but it seems fair to me as it stops people briely living in the area, getting their DC1 into school and then moving, which loads of people do round here.
And I'm sure there are lots of very cross parents whose kids haven't got into their local school who would shop you in an instant if they found out.

Hi Noonar - is it D school that has places?

I sympathise with you, but personally wouldn't do it. The risk of another parent telling on you is huge and also (sorry) I think it is immoral.

Can you not rent a small place in the village you want to live in and wait for a place to come up in that school?

haven't read the whole thread so forgive me if this has already been said....
my ds1 got a place at his primary school when we were renting in the village -the place was allocated in february 2004. he got the place for sep 2004. we found a house to buy and moved out of the catchment in the april 2004, i was petrified we would lose the place and phoned the school to find out where we stood - they said that once the allocations were made, the offer was still valid. It was allocated on where we were living back in february 2004 I believe. There may be small print to back this up or there may be other policies for other schools....
I can remember trawling through a website called 'tigerchild.co.uk or com' cannot remember which and I did find the information there.

for most areas ( i think) the address that counts is the one you are at on the closing date - as in usual place of residence for the child.

if you susequently move, the place wouldn't be withdrawn, but sometimes they do ask for proof that you weren't lying in the first place - something like tenancy agreement or solicitors letter

in my authority a place is withdrawn if you move before the start of term and would not ahve got a place from hte new address. also places are withdrawn after the start of term if it is discovered that they ahve been obtained by deception (ususally based on information passed on by other parents and verified by the LEA) . i would not contemplate lying in these circumstances but would hold off on the house move . good luck whatever you decide

long thread, and too much time in the sun with drinks this pm to read them all.... our school is very popular, and people frequently give false addresses (usually grandparents etc) The school has done random checks after the children started.I know one at least in my DS's year who was asked to leave.

IMO you should def not lie. It will come back to haunt you.

However, I would like to know how any person is expected to drop off/pick up, attend assemblies, etc, at two (or more !!??) different schools at the same time ?

Sorry noonar, I do feel for you but still don't think its worth doing. You say your kids won't have to lie because you'll only be keeping up the deception for short periods, but what about the first day of school when the other kids ask dd2 where she lives? What about when you move and dd1 tells all her friends and then has to tell them you've 'moved back' only to tell them you moved again? What about when their friends ask them round only to be expected round to theirs? There's so many things that can crop up just over a week or two.

Also, if your mum is in dd's catchment area surely she's close enough to see them atm, so that won't be hurt by staying where you are?

I understand the point about a straight through primary but the rules are supposed to be the same for everyone to be fair, if the linked one is the one you want to go for, you should abide by their rules.

Think its far too risky and its not even you that will get hurt, its your dd's.