Transfering back to old primary school and right of appeal

[StayPostive]

Hello,

I recently moved house and transferred my child to a local school as this seemed like the most logical thing to do. However, the current primary school has been a major let down and took our child away on a day trip without parental consent. This is unacceptable to say the least and I am clearly unhappy about this. There are also other issues which I don't wish to go into but the bottom line is, that i feel let down by the school and my child has expressed a strong desire to return to her old primary school.

So, I put in an in-year applicaton to be told that there are no more school places. But having contacted my child's old friends, they tell me that no new child has filled her place in year 1. Assuming this is true, then I can't see why my child can't return in Sept with the rest of the year 1 kids who will be starting in Year 2 this Sept.

So what is the best course of action, go on the waiting list or appeal?

Has anyone been successful at appealing to go back to their old primary school just after a month of being away from the old school?

They may have made other plans and not be able to accommodate you or maybe a new child is starting in September. Your friends don’t necessarily know, I’d speak to the School directly first to find out what the situation is. In year 1 or 2 they have a cap on class size so it may be correct.

Perhaps the place has been filled for a child starting in September. I'm not sure I'd take the words of some 6 year olds as gospel on the matter either.
But I think the only viable course of action is to go on the waiting list.
It also might be worth giving your new school a little longer before attempting to bail out. Re: the trip, was it a very local one, around the immediate neighbourhood, for instance? It may be that you signed a generic permission slip for that. Or rather, you should have signed it, but it's possible, starting new, that perhaps that was missed????

Your poor DD. I hope you get everything sorted out. I think you have approx 3 weeks to accept a school place so it is possible that someone could have accepted your daughters place a couple of weeks before the end of term and not have started yet (planning to start in September). It’s also possible that if the class was previously over their numbers due to a previous child getting in by appeal that they don’t have a place. Ie that pupil was ‘excepted’ before and now you have left the class is back to its proper number and is full.

Perhaps they were over their numbers in the first place.

Taking a child to the beach without parental consent is unacceptable. How can a school fail to seek permission? You may have signed a generic form to say yes to trips, but out for basic courtesy, you need to inform the parent and ask if taking your child outside the school grounds is OK. This oversight as too big in my opinion.

Maybe the place is being taken from sept. I wouldn't mind if my daughter was taken on a trip to the beach (assuming I'd signed a general consent at the start of joining the school).

Did the other parents give permission for their children?
As pp said; there are umpteen reasons why the original school don’t have a place to offer you.
Do you really expect an appeal board to give you a place if it’s already been allocated to another child?

Is it possible that your (previous) year group was actually over PAN and therefore when your DD left they reverted to PAN and therefore there are no spaces available?

apologies -you didn't specify DD or DS!

Everyone has the right of appeal (within limits). Whether you will be successful or not depends on the strength of your case.

Thanks for all your input.

Both. Go on the waiting list. This is held according to the admissions criteria so your place on it depends how close you live, whether other children on the list have siblings there etc. You can move down the most as well as up.

You can also appeal. Do you know how many children are in the class/year? Year 3 is subject to Infant Class Size rules (assuming you’re in England) which limits class sizes to 30. Appeals will only be successful if an error had been made or if it would be unreasonable (the bar for this is very high, think child in a wheelchair allocated a school that has no step-free access). So you can appeal, but from what you have said it sounds extremely unlikely that you would be successful.

Y3 isn’t infant. Is ks2. I think it can be bigger than 30 but schools hold the line unless a child must be admitted, eg looked after., SEND Plan naming school etc. You can appeal but they don’t have to take your DC if the class is full.

Trips to a beach are quite hazardous in that children can drown. They should have had enhanced pupil/adult ratio and your should have given your consent. I would imagine the school had permission from everyone else at the start of the year but failed to check for a new child. That’s poor of course but you must have had some notice of the trip? Surely they didn’t just walk out of school one day? Was there no prep for this? A newsletter msybe?

OP says they will be going into Y2 in September.

Once Year 3 and out of ICS rules, appeals revolve around balance and prejudice and whether it is worse for the school to have to take another child, or worse for the child not to be admitted. The schools makes their case but it is the panel who decide the outcome.

The school I work in has a generic permission form signed at the beginning of the year - or when they start - that gives permission for the children to be taken offsite for trips. We'd normally send a letter or message for courtesy/information but not to seek permission again as it's already been given. Obviously if you didn't sign anything in her new starter paperwork when she joined that's not acceptable.

Any appeal is likely to be an ICS appeal (you need to confirm that though). Assuming it is, you can only win by showing that

• the oversubscription criteria were not in line with the Admissions Code, and/or were not properly applied, and that the mistake cost your DC a place that they would have had if fair criteria has been properly administered.

• the decision not to admit was so unreasonable it was legally perverse (high threshold, think child protection issues)

Any appeal would, I think, have to centre on your being told wrongly that there was no place available when there actually is a vacancy. If there is a vacancy, you should win an appeal. If there is not (they were previously over numbers, the place has recently been offered to/accepted by another family whose DC will start when the school reopens) then I doubt very much that you would win.

Re your new school: if you have signed a generic permission slip for trips out, then no they do not need to ask again if taking a pupil on that type of trip is OK. I would say that many schools do (and, I think, should) inform parents when a trip is in the offing. But it's not an absolute requirement.

The OP says "you may have signed a generic form to say yes for trips " from which I presume that she did but wanted a specific one for this trip-which she didn't get.

Legally, you don’t need to give permission for trips that leave within the school day and return by the end of the school day. The school acts in loco parentis.

On top you may have been asked to sign general consent letter, but there is no requirement for this.

As you weren’t asked to provide swimming costume, towels etc they clearly weren’t taking them swimming! My DC2’s school do this a lot - it is an outstanding school and then often pop to the farm, beach, theatre, zoo - I can guarantee you they keep closer tabs on my child then I do. What a lovely school. It’s called exposing children to the wider world.

We have this situation in ds’ year atm. One left and one didn’t fill as they’ve always been over PAN.

If you live in a seaside town (as do I, and am TA in a local Primary School ) it will be regarded as "Local Area" and extra permission, if you have already signed to say your child can go on local expeditions, will not be needed.
Why would you not allow that? All trips whether local or further afield are risk assessed within an inch of their lives!!! Are you saying the school made no mention AT ALL, in a newsletter or letter home that the children were going to the beach? Do you think they were taken and just left to run wild with no supervision????
Would you really prefer your child left at school while everyone else had a nice trip to the beach???

Our primary didn't ask for separate permission for any walking trips. It would generally inform in advance as often a packed lunch was needed or they wanted to be sure kids had coats or whatever, but not permission.

My child was left to play with others on a beach while the teachers had a cuppa nearby - not on the beach. The tide came in and they had to come off the beach by a different route guided by other adults and find the teachers. That’s not acceptable. My LA required risk assessment but it wasn’t done effectively. They didn’t know the tide times. The tides were different from when they had done the trip the previous year. They didn’t update.

This was a few years ago but it could have been a disaster. The parents were livid when they heard about it!

Remember your issues with your current school will not be part of any appeal - you appear for a school. Not against one.

Seems like you need to find out if the school were already over pan when you left so they don't need to admit anyone else or if someone is taking your place in September. If either of these apply then your case will be very difficult to win.

I would say, if it's a year 2 place, you're best bet would be to go on the waiting list. If they are at capacity, then I don't think you can argue they should expand the class as you could in other year groups. Unless you think they do have a space and are deliberately keeping it from you but I don't know how you'd prove that.

Obviously if you don't like the new school, that's fine but schools don't have to ask permission for each trip. It is good practise to keep parents informed but not a legal requirement.