Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

dd2 is either the bully or being bullied and I really don't know how to unpick it.

12 replies

steppemum · 25/07/2018 17:47

This will be long, sorry.
dd2 is 10, going into year 6 in Sept.
She is lively, clever, outgoing, and totally crap at friendships.
Over the years we have worked on this in many ways and school has been on and off supportive. eg I raised it in year 2 to be told she is fine. same in year 3. In year 4, fantastic teacher, really got dd and she totally recognised the issue, and put a lot of work into dd, and she had a brilliant year. Roll on year 5, nice teacher with not a clue about pre-teen girls and all the issues flared up again.

So, an example, girl A lives a few doors down, about 2 years ago dd was suddenly not allowed to play with her any more, no explanation, I didn't know mum well enough to ask. Just if dd knocked, A was always busy, and A told dd one day at school that her mum wouldn't let her play. I could not get out of dd if anything had happened or not.This year A is now allowed again, and all the kids are on the street are knocking for each other, one day dd comes back home with A. I ask A if she is allowed at our house and the answer is yes because she and dd have made friends again. Afterwards Dd admitted she had been really mean to a AT A's house, which was why she was banned.

Dd gets cross and gets mean. But it isn't that simple. Another child B, started in dd's class. Suddenly one day the mum knocks on my door and says that dd is being nasty every day on the way home from school. dd walks home, we live 2 seconds away. I said I would speak to dd and that please tell me if there are any problems, but after she left, I thought - dd never meets her on the way in, as dd is early and they are late. On the way home dd always walks with another friend, and the day the mum complained about, dd had a club!

A month later, I was in the playground and this woman came and screamed in dd's face about her bullying her dd. She repeated some stuff which couldn't be true, (again about things happening on the way home, when dd had taken to walking the long way round, so she couldn't have been there) and then a screaming about something that had happened that day. I got between her and dd and said calmly, I am very happy to sort this with the class teacher, if it happened in school, teacher should sort it etc, but she just screamed at me. Head came out and escorted her off the premises. She was yelling at me - everyone knows your dd is a bully and says look out for her Sad.

Head was very supportive of me and dd, and the other mum got a warning letter from school.
Later at home, as I tried to work out what had gone on, dd, in floods of tears, says this that B bullies her, and then when dd reacts, she cries and tells the teacher dd has bullied her. Dd won't tell the teacher because then there is a backlash form the other kids, who think she is a snitch. So, B had elbowed dd hard, and dd had poked her back. B shouts for teacher - sir sir dd poked me, and bursts into tears, dd gets into trouble. But at no point does dd say that B started it by elbowing.

dd didn't want to return to school, and we went in to see head, head and class teacher encouraged dd to always say if B hurts her, and not to retaliate etc.

Today, more drama. dd's best friend, plus a boy plus A all out playing. Dd comes home in tears, she says that boy and A are stopping her from going to best friend's house and being mean and telling best friend not to play with her. Then the 3 knock on the door to say dd has been mean. I suggest to them that maybe this is normal squabbles and that they will all be friends again tomorrow? They all smiled and said yes, and went off.

dd then on more floods of tears. Says she is now banned from best friends house, as best friend told her mum dd is bullying her. That boy plus A are ganging up on her. I asked if anything had happened at school, and boy had pinched her. Instead of telling she had hit him, and he then cried and whole. class then sides with boy. I try to talk to her about WHY she didn't speak up when he pinched and she said that the backlash from the others for telling isn't worth it.

Then she is talking about suicide, because she is so unhappy because they are bullying her. But when I look at it, she is giving as good as she is getting, but she CANNOT see that, no matter how we explain it.

I just feel at the end of my tether, mainly because I cannot work ou if she is the bully or if she is being bullied, and I don't know how to support her to react properly, to work out these squabbles properly, She is very easy to wind up, and then she lashes out, but she is desperate to play with these kids. To be fair as soon as boy gets involved, there is always a squabble, he is a wind up merchant, but dd knows that.
Squabbles are all normal, but this business of her talking about suicide, and being banned, and other kids calling her a bully, I just don't know where the truth lies.

The irony, I am a teacher, she is dc3, so it isn't as if I am doing this for the first time. I work with kids still, and my own dd, I just don't know what to do next.

OP posts:
steppemum · 25/07/2018 18:01

Oh just read that back and some of it is illegible, sorry, hope you can get the gist.

OP posts:
TheDucksAreComing · 25/07/2018 18:15

Your poor DD. It sounds as though her past behaviour has given her a reputation of being the "mean" or "naughty" kid, amongst the other children (and their parents too). The kids have realised that if they accuse your DD of being mean then teachers, parents and the other children are likely to believe them regardless of your DD's actual behaviour.

I think you need a sit down meeting with DD's class teacher and possibly headteacher as well. Explain that you understand that your DD has established a reputation for herself, but that the other children are now taking advantage of this. Let them know how unhappy your DD is and that you think she is being ganged up on. I would tell them that she has mentioned suicide too - that is not a normal thing for a 10 year old to threaten and hopefully will help them understand the gravity of the situation, and the fact that something needs to change.

Best of luck! For what it's worth it sounds like you're doing a brilliant job of acknowledging that your DD isn't an angel (whose is?) but going to bat for her when she's the one who needs support.

TheDucksAreComing · 25/07/2018 18:20

Sorry, just clocked that they're probably about to break up for summer holidays if they haven't already. Over summer can you arrange some days out for your DD and her friends where you'll be there with them (or observing from a distance)? It'll give you a chance to see how they're interacting with each other - and whether it's true that your DD is the one causing problems, or in fact that her friends are very quick to accuse her of wrongdoing...

steppemum · 25/07/2018 18:20

Thanks, Ducks, you have actually made me cry as I was half expecting everyone to just say - face up to it she is a bully.

head is lovely and was amazing when dd was screamed at in the playground, handled it really well. But class teacher is a wet blanket. Tomorrow is the last day, and she (and I) were looking forward to her being out and about with best friend over the summer, but now with boy and A in the mix it has already gone bottom up, and I don't know if she is banned from best friend's house, and if so, if best friend is actually upset with her or not.

I do at least know best friends mum well enough to ask. The others I don't as they play outside together mostly.

OP posts:
MM5 · 25/07/2018 19:19

I think it may be 6 of one and half dozen of the other.

They have learned what pushes your DD’s buttons and are likely provoking with intent and know she will respond.

It does not make sense for your daughter to say she doesn’t tell staff because it will be worse. Worse than what? If they realise she will tell if they try to push their buttons, they get in trouble. So what? They will realise there are consequences for their actions and the real bullies will rise to the surface. They are telling on her.

However, But, it may well be that she is starting it (and why she doesn’t tell staff because she has started it) and will have to face the consequences.

Sorting it out won’t be easy. But, Shen is old enough to take the right actions.

Several years ago the local neighbour child kept attacking my son. He never retaliated.... Just walked away. Then one day, he got whacked with a bat and my son just reacted which left a bruise on the child. The child went running to his dad who was furious and even called the police. The police arrived and I showed him the bruises on my son and explained he was not 10 yrs old (the dad had told the police he was). After that, my son made the decision not to play with the child ever again. The child knocked and knocked and over and over again I would tell him that my son would not play with him. My son was in the wrong. But, he chose never to put himself in the situation with this child where his buttons could be pushed.

Maybe this summer may just be a bit different.

multivac · 25/07/2018 19:26

There isn't always a 'bully'. In fact, I would suggest that actual 'bullying' is pretty rare amongst children (although I realise that there will be a mob of MN mums ready to tell me otherwise...)

I think what you have here, is kids being unkind to each other, as kids can be. Kids reacting to each other, as kids can do. And kids picking up on the language of 'bullying' that the adults around them use, and using it in their turn.

I feel for you, OP - and for what it's worth, it sounds to me like you are dealing with a difficult situation really well at the moment. You are modelling great behaviour for your daughter - looking at all sides, considering others, ready to take responsibility when that's appropriate.

Keep talking to her. Keep suggesting strategies to help her stop reacting as she does. And keep reassuring her she is loveable, and loved.

That's what I reckon.

Tomorrowillbeachicken · 25/07/2018 20:40

B and b’s mum sound like the apple doesn’t fall from the tree. Tbh in our school she would have been banned from the playground.

steppemum · 25/07/2018 22:40

thanks all.
tomorrow - she was given a warning, especially as it was directed at dd, not at an adult, and a repeat will get her banned.

I have always tried to do the 6 of one and half a dozen of the other with dd and with the friends.
With the boy, and with dds best friend, that has always worked, mainly because their parents take a similar approach.

But it is escalating, and I am not sure that dd isn't the root cause. But it may be that they are pushing her buttons as pp said.

The sad thing is that A and the boy are preventing her from playing with and seeing her bet friend by always being around and making it a group of 4, which doesn't work.

I think I was very upset over it all tonight as she was talking about suicide.

She has a new teacher who sounds good and experienced next year. I think I may go in and chat early on and see if we can pre-empt some repetition.

I suggested to dd earlier that we arrange 2 play dates next week with other people not from school, both of whom she likes a lot, so that is 2 days out of the local mix

OP posts:
Tomorrowillbeachicken · 25/07/2018 23:30

Can you invite her best friend to play at yours and exclude the others from the invitation?

RoboJesus · 26/07/2018 02:44

You need to take her to the doctor and tell them all your concerns. Talking about suicide alone is enough but it sounds like she might have something else going on. If diagnosed she can get the right support she needs.

steppemum · 26/07/2018 09:38

so, saw the head this morning, and she is going to put some things in pace for early next term to start the year on a different footing. Head will also do a TAMS referral.

I also saw her best friend, and very gently said - hi, have you guys had a falling out? (dd wasn;t there) she looked a bit uncomfortable, so I said - did dd do something to upset you, she won't tell me, in a very gentle voice. Best friend then said that she didn't like it when dd was mean to the others (the boy and B) as they are her friends too, and so she doesn't want to play with dd at the moment.
I thanked her for telling me and said I would try and sort it out.

So, dds bet friend HAS banned her and is unhappy with her. Sad

dd much calmer this morning.

RoboJesus - I don't think she has anything else goign on

OP posts:
multivac · 26/07/2018 13:30

You're doing great, OP. It's a tough situation, but I honestly don't think you could or should be doing anything differently/better. I really hope that your daughter moves past this x

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread