Is this School day too short?

[Ahmawa]

I am not sure whether I should take this up with the the head as to me it seems the school day is too short.

9-11.30 - teaching

11.30-12.15 lunch

12.15-1.00 playtime

1.00-3pm - teaching (of which 30 mins is carpet session)

3pm - 4.30pm - after school clubs

so 4.5hrs of teaching

Now I compared it to other schools -

Morning Session: 8.55am to 12.15pm (3h 20)
Afternoon Session: 1.15pm to 3.10pm (1hr 55)

Total 5hr 15m

8.55-11.45 Learning time (2hr 50m)
11.45-1.00 Lunchtime
1.00-2.45 Learning time (1hr 45m)
2.45-3.00 Playtime
3.00-3.25 Learning time (25m)
3.25 Home

5hr total learning

Morning Session 8.40am-12.00pm (3h 20)
Afternoon Session 1.00pm-3.20pm (2h 20)

Is there a legal limit to how short the school day can be?

Why isn't carpet time learning? We have some of the longest school hours in Europe. Fewer hours would be better I think.

Sounds fine to me. Young children learn better in bursts with frequent breaks.

What age? Generally lunch is eaten in shifts so not all children will be actually eating from 11 30 onwards. Sounds like a perfectly normal primary school day to me.

What I don't understand is that the new head is coming from another school which has a good rating and she said she would be taking most of the training plans from there rather than use the plans from the MAT.

But then the school times at her previous school were longer -

Morning Session 8.40am-12.00pm (3h 20)
Afternoon Session 1.00pm-3.20pm (2h 20)

So should I press her on this or does it come across I am an idiot parent making an issue out of nothing.

does it come across I am an idiot parent making an issue out of nothing

Yes, I think it does. I’m sure she’ll change it if it doesn’t work. To be honest it’s never occurred to me to add up the exact hours of learning that mine do/will be doing.

That's a huge amount of forced education for primary!
My DS is at primary and they start at 9.20, finish at 3 and have 1.5 hours of break time during the day.

There are no breakfast or after school clubs either.
They are expected to do homework daily.

I don't think actual length of learning time really makes a difference.
30 minutes of engaged learning is better than 1 hour of bored children just sitting at the table, imo.

Surely its good the kids get adequate breaks,time to eat a nourishing lunch&socialise..you need to value a holistic approach-kids dont need to be burnt out,bored&desperate to leave education mid teens..

9-3 ish is fairly standard.
Carpet time is definitely learning time so that should be included.
the lunch break does seem very long, but as others as have said I am guessing that is the overall time for lunch and different years will actually have lunch/break somewhere within that envelope and not all of it.

It does seem like a long lunch though it doesn’t take 45mins to eat. I think our school lunch time is 45mins but that includes the play time too? Remember that the other schools you mentioned will most likely have a playtime in the morning at some point too as well as registration and most likely assembly too. So that’s worth bearing in mind.

This is for reception.

The only reason I compared it was against the two other schools we are on the waiting list for.

This is a new school. Will be a single class of 20. So only 20 kids in the whole school.

She is also planning breakfast club between 8-8.40

So the school day runs from 8am-4.30pm incl breakfast and after school clubs.

I am not sure the clubs are chargeable but I assume they would be.

The lunch time is 1.5hrs.

45 mins to eat lunch.
45 mins to play

With only 20 kids not sure they can play for that long without getting bored?

I wouldn't count breakfast and after school clubs as part of the school day. They are not compulsory - not all children will go. And yes I am sure they would be chargeable.

My understanding is that schools only have to provide 190 days per year and there isn't any prescribed hours on how long those days last for however I believe teachers should only be teaching for a prescribed number of hours. Honestly don't worry about the hours I had a long school day in primary which mostly involved staring out of the window.

Yes I definitely wouldn’t include the breakfast and after school clubs in the school day... ours run from 7.30am- 6pm but obviously only some children attend.

Will they have lunchtime clubs?

Possibly not if there's only one class but that might be where the extra 45 minutes is going.

DS's day is more like the second example only they'd have a break and assembly most days. So they might do like an hour of learning before 20 minutes assembly and 20 minute break

Length of school day does vary a lot between schools.
Around where I am, I have found that faith schools esp RC tend to have around 30 minutes longer days - to fit in the requirement of 2h (KS1)/2.5h (KS2) RE per week.

The 'time' spent learning doesn't matter much though, the effectiveness matters a lot more. At reception age, children learn most effectively through play - a good mixture of structured and unstructured, child-led and teacher-led play. So 45 minutes of unstructered, child-led play time at lunch could turn out to add perfectively to all the slightly more structured, slightly more adult-led playing being done during the 'work' hours.

If children get bored from playing i.e. from doing what they want, something is a bit strange! If they are so used to constantly being 'entertained' that they do not have any own ideas/interests, then it will be very good for them to be 'bored' for a bit and perhaps they will learn to enjoy themselves without being entertained.

On the other hand, at reception age my DS found lunch break (the time eating and the play time) hugely stressful, due to the very low level of adult supervision basically leaving 4yos to negotiate social relations completely alone. In a school that has only 20 kids in total, I don't think that is a likely problem though.

I would also be a bit surprised at children finding an hour and a half of play ‘boring’. Playing is what children do. They use their imaginations/invent games.

It's weird to have 45 mins for lunch and then 45 mins playtime. Ours have a mid morning break for 15 minutes and then later on lunch for 50 minutes. There is no afternoon break. School day is 8.55 until 3

This sounds perfect for reception age children. They can’t concentrate very long and most learning will be through play. Carpet time is still teaching, they’re not just sitting there. I think you’re being a bit helicoptery and need to chill, in the nicest possible way!

It's reception. They learn through play.
Please don't take it up with the head. She will think you are bats.

Reception is a lot of free play anyway. But 2.5 hrs with no 'break' is a long time.

More usefully, is this the same timetable for higher up the school, e.g. y2?

At our primary there was a break mid morning and mid afternoon for infants, plus an hour for lunch. Juniors didn't get a formal afternoon break (though sometimes did depending on individual teachers).

I've done a lot of supply teaching in different primary schools - generally anything between about 8.45 and 9am is par for the course for school starts on a morning, and anything after about 3pm for finishes (between 3.15 and 3.45 is the general spread of it).

I wouldn't be wishing a longer day on them when they're that young. It's enough.

Own kids' school is 8.45 - 3.15 (and the 8.45's a fairly early start time round here but is done that way to fit with the linked juniors who have a similar length day but 9-3.30 to allow parents to walk between the two schools).

The head will think you a little crazy telling her who's experienced what to do.