AIBU to be angry about this?

[schoty77]

DD is in Year 4. She tried out for the school choir in February and did not make it, despite most of the other girls in her class getting in, including all her friends. It was a big deal to her, as this was the first year she was able to participate and has always been very musical. She asked the teacher why she didn't get in and was told she just wasn't good enough. I was sympathetic to her but assumed the other kids were just better!

Since Feb she has tried out twice more and failed to get in. Now I have a letter home saying she's been cast as the main role in the school showcase (musical) where she will be singing. Same choir teacher has written a comment about her 'great voice'.

I'm fuming. Daughter can't have a place in the choir (misses out on school trips/performances her friends go to) but can carry the school musical? AIBU to want to have strong words with this teacher?

I would wait until after the production when hopefully she is praised and then ask about what else she needs to do to get into the choir.

to all those saying that choir singing is different form solo singing, yes yes but

the kids are year 4. So they are 8/9 year sold.

Which school even auditions for a choir at this age?
Every school I know would have all comers in singing ability excellent or zero, and it would be about singing together for fun.

She was told she wasn't good enough ie, you can't sing.
Who even tells an 8 year old they can't sing?

In our school choir one year was an autistic kid who sang loudly and tunelessly louder than the others.
They helped him over the year to learn to moderate his volume, and also discovered he loved to be the one operating the cd player....

Some people have great solo voices but are unable or unwilling to blend in a group choir.

I'm happy for her not to be chosen for the choir if that's what the teacher wants (seems utterly crazy to me at the age but I will accept that there could be reasons.) What I object to is any feed back that is "you're not good enough", the only time that feedback would be close to being appropriate is if the real reason was "oh my, please shut up, my ears are bleeding at the hideous noises that come out of your mouth."

Feedback needs to specific, clear and actionable, "you're not good enough" is none of those, and shouldn't be being used by a teacher.

Are you sure that's all the teacher said to her? That she wasn't good enough. How old is your daughter, eight? Sometimes what's said, and what's heard and then passed on can be very different things. Especially when you're eight.

Actually if "you're not good enough" is genuinely what's been said to her then I'd say go ahead with your strong words (read thread and changed my mind!) but check first that there isn't a different version of events.

year 4 choir? really that selective? both primaries DD3 has been to all that was required was to turn up and want to do it.
i would have asked the first time she said she had been turned down.
is the music teacher Simon Cowell?

If it's a choir you have to audition for there's only 2 reasons for not getting picked

1. "you're not good enough"
2. there are x people better than you (if the choir is limited by numbers) ... so basically also "you are not good enough"

It doesn't really matter what the teacher said to her, she's not been picked because she is not good enough!
But, yes, it's appalling that an 8 year old is getting this message, and I'm appalled that the choir is not more inclusive.

Exactly. Even as adults, what is said and what is heard can be very different things. And when that message is then passed on it can be changed again.

If the teacher said nothing more than you're not good enough, of course that's no ok, but I'd be very cautious of believing that and would give thr teacher the opportunity to explain what feedback was actually given. I suspect you might find it's a little different.

Have you spoken to your daughter about what to do when she tries out for the choir. To temper her voice to the others, to understand it's about the sound they make together, about how one voice shouldn't stand out unless directed, about keeping tempo with thr others? That it's about joining in not standing out? I think understanding what's required from Choral singing may help her a lot.

The fact the school has given her thr lead solo would indicate that perhaps she's very strong and simply not able to sing chorally when she tries out, possibly as she doesn't understand and thinks belting them out is thr way to go.

Wow. What a way to frame a stealthboast.

It sounds confusing if her singing is good enough for the main role in the school musical, but not good enough for the school choir.

I think I’d be wanting to ask the teacher for specific feedback about why she’s not been selected for the choir. What bit of her singing isn’t good enough, especially given that the same teacher thinks she has a great voice?

(Incidentally, when I was in school, the only criteria for joining school choirs was a willingness to turn up to all the rehearsals and not messing around.)

Thank you for the feedback. Auditioning for choir/orchestra and sports teams are standard at DD school.

I could understand her not making the choir if her voice stood out too much, but since her audition was a solo, that would be based on her music teachers assumption. I could also understand if they've written her off as disruptive/not a team player (although reports say the contrary), but I would hope they would help her change the behaviour rather than excluding her indefinitely.

Not sure what was said between DD and teacher, but the message my DD got was that she 'wasn't good enough'. The teacher saw she was upset after this but went off to lunch. I don't have the full story yet so will remain calm until I speak to the teacher, but DD has never given me a reason not to believe her.

@InvisibleLlama Not sure how this is boasting. My DD is 8. If it makes you feel validated, she's really bad at maths.

Op remember the teacher is clearly not against your daughter as she has given her the lead in the school show. So something else going on as to why she's not getting in, just speak to her. You're talking like the teacher is against your child and penalising her for the sake of it, when that's clearly not thr case due to the show casting.

In addition no one is suggesting your child is lying on what was said, simply that what is said and what is heard are often two different things, especially when emotion comes into it.

Two people can have a conversation and both come away with a different interpretation on what was communicated. Add into that one being an emotional eight year old child and you've a recipe for miscommunication. I'd also question if it was really she said "you're not good enough" your child got upset and the teacher fucked off out of it
It seems unlikely. So I'd assume you're getting a version that onlookers may have seen more depth to.

@Bluntness100 Sorry if you got that impression. I said I would calmly speak to teacher to find out her side of the story.

An update. Managed to speak to the teacher at drop-off this morning. I told her DD was excited to be part of the musical, then asked why she hadn't got in to the choir if she had the talent. Teacher told me they have limited places due to using school vans for their trips. Fair enough, I said. End of that issue.

I told the teacher I was concerned DD had been told she wasn't good enough for the choir. Teacher didn't see the problem with this, and I explained I didn't want DD to feel like a failure when clearly she is talented enough to be the lead in the musical. That different words could have been used as DD was very upset. Teacher still didn't see the issue and IMO she treated my concerns like a joke (?), and told me (jovially) DD 'can't have everything just because she wants it' and that there are other kids in the school too. I told her I understood this, the way it was handled was the bigger issue. Teacher waved me off (!!).

At that point I just said 'right' and left. How rude! I thought.

As I have said before, several other parents have complained about her, when DD was in Year 2 I saw several children coming out of her class in tears at pick up . I don't like the way I was spoken to, or how DD was spoken to (yes I believe her side). Now I'm very concerned this is going on in the classroom.

Not sure of what to do now.

How big is the school OP? If it's relatively small I'd ask for an appointment to see the head. If big there may be more layers of management so there might be a deputy or head of year/ stage that would be more appropriate. If you look on the school's website there should be a policy tht sets out how the school deals with complaints

That's awful, and worth raising with school management.

It sounds like the teacher may dislike your daughter, which must be worrying. The comment about "she can't have everything just because she wants it" suggests to me that this is personal. If it was purely a case of DD not being suited to the choir, why say this?

I really hope it's taken seriously be school management. Comments and attitudes like this can stick with pupils for decades.

It's a small Evangelical Christian school. VERY religious (ie. Harry Potter is evil). 90% South African and belong to the linked church. Too culty for us so we don't go, DD gets stick for it. DD is not from SA and can't speak Afrikaans either so also feels excluded when her friends/teachers do.

I'm not going to make the assumption she isn't liked by the teacher because she isn't 'part of the community', (or biracial) but it does make me question if that's the case.

Ok teacher sounds horrible and maybe long term she is best not being in the choir if she is happy to ride roughshod over kids feelings. Maybe find a choir outside school. I'd let management know about her attitude though. Your last post sheds a bit more light, do they do religious stuff in choir? Perform for churches and so on? And they think she wouldn't be up for that? Or did she struggle to sing songs correctly that were in Afrikaans?

Most of what they do in school is centered around religion, ie. no science but creationism. DD happily joins in and doesn't question it, but teacher and other staff know myself and DH don't agree with religious fundamentalism (very lapse Catholics at best). Lessons are in English too, teachers/students generally speak Afrikaans at lunch and among themselves. We chose the school so DD had a better chance of getting into a particular high school.

My issue is, since it's such a close knit group, if I bring this up with the principal, DD is going to be treated poorly. Have talked to DD and a few things are setting off red flag for me. I am considering moving her to another school for next year.

That sounds terrible! I can't imagine putting a child into a school that teaches creationism as fact if you don't believe it yourself. You are seriously damaging her education as either she is learning lies as facts or (if you are countering the lies) she is learning that she can't rely on teachers. Choir issue is suddenly a non-issue. Get her out of there.

Ahahahaha. As a South African born and bred, may I recommend you remove your child from the school. The weirdass Afrikaans religious authoritarianism is one of my least favourite aspects of my motherland, and can be actively harmful in a number of ways. If you are atheists, you are practically the devil already, you understand. I avoid communities like this in Britain like the plague, despite raising my kids Afrikaans-bilingual.

Lapsed Catholics! Roomse Gevaar! Roman Danger! Worse than the devil! LTB!

Maybe they weren’t using the word ‘good’ referring to her voice but to their perception of her beliefs and your attitudes. She is 8. This is not a healthy environment for her.