Violence in primary school - advice needed please

[Andthenjust]

Hi, this is my first post on Mumsnet (I joined the site specifically for this lol), I'm asking for advice from you all in regards to my kids current school.

My eldest is currently in Year 2, and academically she is fine, her home life is good, shes generally a happy kid. HOWEVER, lately I've notic ed a dramat ic change in her personality, and yesterday she came home from school upset.
Amongst her classmates, there are seven or eight children who are incredibly disruptive- shouting out, screaming etc, and she is often bothered by that and complains of headaches. To ma ke matters worse, these same chi ldren have taken to throwing furniture across the room and my daughter has been hit with a chair on previous occasions, and yesterday her and her friend had a tab le flipped on top of them. Earlier on in the year, a student in the class trashed the classroom to the extent that the children had an emergency evacuation onto the playground and the classroom was closed off for the rest of the day. I was in the school when this happened, and it was honestly lik e a prison riot scene from a film. I know th is sounds exaggerated but its the honest to god truth - I've never seen anything like it.
After this incident, I told the teachers how it affected my daughter, that she felt frightened and spent the weekend dreading the return to school. This incident was creat ed by one child, but now it has spread acro ss the class and there is now a group of children who have started throwing furniture at other children and the staff.
Th is has been going on for the la st year; getting worse and more frequent. It was my daughters' 'taster' day yeste rday in year three, and the behaviour continued there.
She's been so stress ed her hair has started falling out.
I ve spoken to the teachers, and theyre apparently at a loss as to what to do- their only option for the disruptive kids is to let them out of the classroom and to run around the school.
Ive emai led the head teacher, but Im not hoping for much as this is the second email I've sent (the first one I didn't get a reply from for four weeks).
I don't know what to do, and any advice is greatly appre ciat ed as I am at my wits end.

Sorry for the long rambling post, and I hope it's coherent.

Thanks foxy, no, I have no idea what is going on with the other children, and in the nicest way I don't care as my own are my priority. (Disclaimer, OF COURSE I care about kids education and them g etting the right help etc, but I'm more concerned with my own, rather than knowing the ins-and -out s of whatshisname)
when I spoke to the head, one of the many things that grated, was how she kept saying 'it's none of your business what happens, and I refuse to disclose that information. Have some respect, I would never speak about your children'. .. Dude, all I asked is i f you can promise me my kid isn't going to have a table/chair/book/teacher lobbed at her whilst she's learning fractions. Head teacher seems obssesed with the children who are disrupting the class, but when I ask her if that kid will be able to hurt my child, she acted like I was trying to obtain his school records

I am a parent of that child who did turn a class room upside down and cause an evacuation.

In our case it was because my son has ASD and the school did not put in place recommended (by a therapist) strategies and instead forced him to do things that caused him to melt down.

I am the parent who has been stared at, gossiped about, been reported to social services.

In our case he has never hurt another child or adult, but has knocked over tables and chairs.

We as parents do not always know the full situation, my son is gossiped about, and known as a bad kid. It has nothing to do with discipline or parenting, but a disability. You do not always know the full picture, but the teachers will.

All I want is for my child to get the help he needs (not possible with the current school funding) and a bit of understanding. We get enough judgement as it is.

And we have been denied an EHCP as our son is not disabled enough.

Sitrus, I'm so sorry that 's happening to y our son. It sounds like it's across the board where kids are just 'left' as nobody knows what to do with them. I hate using the phrase, but is it funding?
Tbh I've never really thought about 'parenting', and I've never assumed it's because of 'the bloody parents'. I 'm on ly interested in how its effecting my kids, and what the school do to keep my kids safe, not so much specific s. I do feel fo r you and others i n your situation. I've witnessed the gossip people are horrib le.

This is the opening paragraph to my dgs's school's child protection and safeguarding policy

Rationale
Children and young people have a fundamental right to be protected from harm. They have a right to expect schools
to provide a safe and secure environment. It is a guiding principle of the law and child protection procedures that the
protection and welfare of a child must always be the first priority. Failure to provide an effective response can have
serious consequences for the child.
Safeguarding is defined as:
• Protecting children from maltreatment
• Preventing impairment of children's health or development
• Ensuring that children are growing up in circumstances consistent with the provision of safe and effective care
• Taking action to enable all children to have the best life chances

Your school's policy should have something similar.

I would write a letter to the head and cc it to the head of governors, the LEA and Ofsted. I would quote the school's policy and give examples of when and how the school have failed in its duty to your child and ask the headteacher what steps she is going to take to safeguard your child in future.

Hopefully your child will be out of there soon but shining a light on the place might help other children and staff

In the meantime I would be visiting the other schools for which your dc are on the waitlist so I could be reasonably satisfied I wasn't taking them from the frying pan and dropping them in the fire.

(I have just tried to post this message twice and am now going to try again so apologies in advance if I end up with a triple post.)

ginnotginger thanks for that post, I may borrow parts as a template if you don't mind.
Out of interest, do es anybody know about when writing a deregistering letter, it has to arrive at the school on the day of the child's first absence? Bloody printer is broke, and the earliest I'll be able to get the letter to the school is probably this coming Wednesday (kids first day of absence will be this Monday)

Hand write but photocopy so you have a copy???
Not sure of the rights and wrongs of this

Sirius There is a child in Reception with my dgs. He has SEN and has hit other children (including dgs) and has had meltdowns in class - he has been invited to every 'whole class' party. When you speak to him he is polite, funny and kind. His dm works at the school (directly with the children) and has done so for years. Anyone with an ounce of sense would realise that his behaviour is due to his additional needs and not the failure of his parents. On the other hand I have seen other parents around the school and I would expect their children to be little nightmares purely based on the behaviour and attitudes of the adults!
I was annoyed when I heard that dgs had been hit by another child but dgs said ' it's X, he sometimes can't help it. Ms Y helped me and Ms Z helped X.' It made me realise that X is a 5 year old boy and as such deserves all the help he needs.

I hope your child gets the support he needs as soon as possible.

OP, sorry for the cross post - my dd rang me to talk about the match and I didn't press post. Borrow away - glad it was helpful.

My printer always packs up at the most inconvenient time as well. I use the library. My local one charges 10p per A4 sheet - is this an option for you?

Thank you very much for letting me use you r post lol!
I don't thin k I'll be able to get to a library in time. Husbands currently trying to resuscitate printer fingers crossed
I just know school will try and make things as difficu lt for me as possible, so dont want to give them any extra op portunity

I would also send a letter to the CEO of the Academy about your children school, and that you are removing them due to the fact the school can not keep your child safe.

They have to by law (if you are in England) have the Governor/trusties details on the school website.

They are also not looking after the safeguarding of the other children in the class room.

I would also voice my concerns to Ofsted.

Hand write and photo the letter. A pain but better than nothing. Alternatively or as well you could email the letter as a back-up.

Yr2?! DS2's in yr2 and I thought he was badly behaved, but that's atrocious. Why haven't these children been excluded?

clutterbugsmum yep, the LEA I spoke to says they HAVE to provide me with governors names/contact details, but the school have flat out refused. I asked the receptionist at the school, and she sounded extremely uncomfortable and then passed me onto the 'schools business manager', who then ke pt repeating '(head teacher) will call you' like a mantra everyti me I asked for a governors contact number.
Oh, oh!!! Printer has worked hoorah, but also emailing a copy to the admin at the school following your advice.

perfectly the head teacher put me in my place in regards of exclusion. I quote " the children I have in this are the children I've got. I will NOT exclude them and you need to accept that'. Didn't ask to have them excluded, just want them to stop throwing shit at my kid.

DS2 punched his friend in the face, completely unprovoked, last year. The HT said that would usually result in automatic exclusion, but "I've never excluded a yr1 child and I'm not about to start now." The behaviour you describe is much, much worse. What would make your DC's headteacher exclude a child?

The school must name the Chair of Governors on your web site and most name their full governing body. You can always write to the Chair via the school. Look at the on line prospectus which should contain details.

The school clearly sees inclusion as being more important than all children learning safely. They won’t discuss the details of another child with you but they certainly should be able to say how they intend to keep all children safe. The teacher is probably at her wits end due to the Head not balancing the needs of all the children. Schools have to make provision for children with behaviour difficulties but they need to protect all the children at the same time. Very severere behavioural difficulties do require an EHCP. These are not just provided for nice little Jonny with dyslexia. They must be provided for children with extreme behaviour difficulties because this is a very special need. The Head needs to get into the classroom to see what’s going on and support the teacher. A good leader supports their staff at times like this.

Schools have to find money. It’s all about juggling resources. They cannot say cuts have meant they are not able to teach SEN children. They do need advice on how to cope and a EHCP would give extra money. I hope the Head is actually pressing for this behind the scenes. She can also do a long exclusion to buy time to get funding and advice in place. Doing nothing alienates teachers, parents and other children. Overspend if they need to then ask for a bit of financial help from the Trust.

I love that the Head is too busy to talk to you because of Safeguarding. It’s good to know she knows what it is. You can also look up the C of E MAT details and complain to them. I would be choosing another school though. Other parents will be doing the same.

Lol, a kid in my youngest daughters (yr 1) class punched the HT in the stomach last Christmas. It was on the last day of term, and the HT said he'll be in a detention type thinf the next day (they keep them in at lunchtime). Kid replied "NOT.AT.SCHOOL.TOMORROW". nothi ng was followed up.

Back in yr 2 class, different kid to the chair-chucker, one delightful child sneaked a lighter into school in his pencil case. He burnt the child sat next to him on her arm. No exclusion, little girl had to go to hospital. As far as I know (could be wrong) he werent 'punished'.
Cant believe I forgot about this tbh.

too many safeguarding issues to cope with

I think that was code for, ‘I’m desperately concerned about this child and am working my socks off to get him what he needs.’

Obviously your concern must lie with your children though, so perhaps a move would be the best thing. A school has a duty of care to all its pupils, and this is not happening for your child at present.

EHCP's are all well and good, but the school must fund the first £10k (roughly) and then the EHCP tips that up. We are looking at staff redundancies because, due to the increase in these care plans (which are needed for the kids) we cannot find normal classroom staff. For a one form entry school with a full 30 in each class, every EHCP costs us staff. As does the mandatory NI increases, pension increases and pay increases. The government is right, it hasn't cut funding, but it doesn't cover these increased costs.

@bubbles I've left a message with the Diocese people who will g et back to me on Monday. In terms of the governors, they say they have governor's online, but no way of contacting them. But if you can write to them in care of the school, I'll do that.
I've been so wound up about it all I wouldntve thought about half the stuff you guys have suggested, so again thank you all for your help.

If you write care of the school make sure you write private and confidential only to be opened by person named on it.

If this is a church school (I assume c of e) isn’t head of governors the vicar. Ours is and his contact details are on our church website.

The SEn budgets were rejigged and are now a joke.

I have worked in schools like this. It is sadly more common than people think, but it isn't acceptable.
OP, I think you are doing the right thing by moving your children. I wouldn't put my children in some of the schools I have worked at. I have utmost sympathy for you OP, the head sounds terrible and your children are better off out. I speak from experience, those teachers won't stay there either if they have the option to leave.

I also have to say I have utmost sympathy with previous posters who have been in the position of being a parent of a disruptive child. I've taught those children who are gossiped about and labeled - it is SO HARD on the parents. I've had parents crying in my classroom because they know no one wants to sit next to their kid. OP, move your children and be thankful that your problem can be escaped from.

To PPs re: exclusions. When I worked in 'tough' schools I often had people ask why we don't just expel difficult children. The answer is that we have to provide an education that is in the best interests of ALL children. Excluding a child labels them as 'bad' for life. They never forget it. It can make a child with difficult behavior become impossible to handle. Excluding a child solves the problem for everyone else in the class, but it create a whole host of new problems for the excluded child and their new school. So, while I totally sympathise with OP, and would get my children out of that school, and I agree that the disruption needs to be handled by a more competent head, I can also understand how exclusion isn't always the best option. I really hope the children at OP's school get the support they need. They aren't being supported here either. Lose-lose all round

Yeah, it's a church school, the church is walk able for me so may just try and see if I can speak to the guy in charge, if I can't I'm not too worriednow.
mrsteachy thanks for your reply. I do think the majority of this is down to the school. Tbh, my dd plays with the kids in question! They all play togeth er on the playground and she considers (the main boy in question) to be a friend. I have no problems with him. It's in the afternoo ns it usually goes south and he gets wound up. I can sympathise with him - it wou ld drive me nuts to be forced to sit at a table for nearly six hours a day doing, essentially, low-level clerical work. It s how the school deals/doesn't deal with it.
Same boy also wrecked havoc in the school library. The solution - the ht removed the furniture from the library. She was incredibly proud of telling me this. Again, not getting to the root of the problem. Nobody benefits from it.