In-year school appeal (yr3) - need advice about challenging prejudice

[Cystaltipps]

Hello,

I posted earlier in the year about our situation but thought I'd start a new thread as the situation has moved on.

We're moving back to the UK having spent just under a year overseas (due to work, we're not crown servants). We'd like our daughter to start back at her old school in Sep 2018 but the year group (year 3) is now full and we've been unsuccessful in getting a place so are appealing.

Our daughter did not cope well with the move abroad and has been referred to a paediatrician, school counsellor and a child psychologist as a result. She has experienced anxiety, behavioural issues and social problems since the move. A completed Conner's questionnaire put her at a risk of anxiety and depression. The paediatrician suspects ADHD but this has not yet been confirmed.

We have letters supporting her need to return to the old school (naming the school) from the paediatrician and school counsellor (who is a qualified psychologist). We're waiting on one from the child psychologist.

Obviously all this will go into the second part of the appeal - we'll argue that she needs to return to the old school for continuity to avoid a 'detrimental effect to her emotional health' (the paediatrician's words). She has still has friends there and was happy and settled.

However, the first part of the appeal is the part I find tricky.

It's a high performing school that has been consistently oversubscribed. When the latest Ofsted inspection gave it an outstanding rating it was oversubscribed by 6 pupils. So it seems they can maintain good results even if over PAN. In September (providing Early years is only at PAN), the school as a whole will be undersubscribed by 7 pupils, year 3 will be at PAN (60).

My questions are:

(1) SATs results - can I find out online/ask the school about SATs results for various years and use these to argue oversubscription doesn't impede the education the school provides. Are SATs results presented so that 'laymen' can interpret them?!

(2) Pupil/teacher ratios - the school seems to have a high number of teaching assistants. Full disclosure: I used to work as one in this school. Some of these are funded by the school itself (it benefits from extra funding from an educational trust) as the pupils they work with are not yet 'statemented'. If I find out some kind of ratios can I argue that they have sufficient staff for one extra pupil? Where can I get these ratios and again, will a layman be able to interpret them?

Obviously I will ask about NET capacity, number on the SEN register etc. What other things do I need to ask?

Thanks in advance

The school will also consider the needs of the children in that particular cohort. If there are a higher than usual proportion of children with additional needs or who require support (be that behavioural/emotional/educational) they may argue that going over 30 will disadvantage these children.

In some cohorts adding one or two children would not make any difference, in others you are stretched to your thinnest possible point as it is without taking on any more.

I don’t think you are being entirely fair here. What about other children with additional needs in the class?
Can you take a step back here and have a look at plan b and a different school.

What about other children with additional needs in the class

That isn't the OP's problem. If the school raises this as an issue the appeal panel will look at this and decide whether or not the school can cope. If they think that other children with additional needs will suffer unduly if the OP's child is admitted the appeal will fail.

The OP needs a plan b in case her appeal fails but she is legally entitled to appeal. The appeal panel will take into account all the issues being raised by those trying to argue that the OP should not appeal.

"I don’t think you are being entirely fair here. What about other children with additional needs in the class?
Can you take a step back here and have a look at plan b and a different school".

I know this class well, from my work in the school and as parent. There is only one child on the SEN register (with a constant 1:1 TA) and no other pupils with additional needs. That's unless things have changed in the 9 months we've been away. If it was a genuinely challenging class I don't think we'd want to return her to it, for the good of all concerned.

I don't think it's fair to question whether appealing parents are being fair, they want the same that every parent wants for their child - what they believe is best for them. What you're essentially saying here is that the fact that the appeals process exists is unfair.

You should put more faith in appeals panels, they will not admit extra pupils to the genuine detriment of existing pupils.

We do have a place for her in another school, so of course we have a plan B...it's just not one that we or 3 separate medical professionals believe would be sensible one.

Hello again all,

We have been sent our appeal date, which unfortunately falls in the one week of the year I have travel plans for. I have asked if they would consider re-scheduling but if they can't I will either have to cancel my trip or send someone in my place.

If we send a family member I'm worried that they will fail to represent our case well enough or that it'll be stressful for them or that we may (subconsciously) blame them if we don't win :-(

I'm being forced to think about using a solicitor. I know this is discouraged and I would much rather attend the appeal myself (even with a 24 hour flight involved). However, if anyone has experience of a solicitor or other type of professional who won't approach this as a court case and irritate the panel, please share!

Also, can I ask how long is reasonable for an admissions authority (the school) to take to reply to questions about numbers on roll and school layout etc? It's been over a week with no acknowledgement of my e-mail. I hope they won't wait until the last minute.

Thanks

We were in a very similar situation a few years ago.

Our dd experienced severe anxiety (most worryingly pulling out her hair) when we left the UK. These symptoms started up again when we were ready to return 3 years later.

When we applied for the same school upon our return, we supplied letter from our local Dr stating that for the above reasons it was essential that she should return to her old school. And also letter from school abroad saying she had shown strong signs of anxiety about her return whilst there. These letters were submitted under Exceptional Circumstances in the application.

When we returned the LEA said there were no places in year 3 available, as the class was at 30.
The LEA were actually very supportive (I know not always the case!) and basically said that although the evidence we had submitted was compelling, the head teacher was refusing to go over 30. We kept pushing and in the end the LEA said that to save an appeal (cost, time, more stress for our dd) they had a meeting with the head teacher and forced him to take our dd. The said that with the evidence we had, we would have won an appeal and so were sensible about not making us go through the motions.

Interestingly when we met the head once our dd had started, he was lovely. He basically said that he had no issue going over 30 really, and knew it would make no difference to the rest of the class - but was most concerned about the parents who would complain that their dc would be disadvantaged by being in a class of 31!
He didn't want to be the one who made the decision to go over 30. Parents in the school are very helicoptery and pushy.
He was right really, as I got the cold shoulder from a fair few mums, and even got asked by one if I bribed the head teacher!!
Sorry I suppose I'm just telling my story really - not sure if it's much help.

Just thought, my DH's company paid for the services of an educational consultant. She was amazing and again said that with the evidence we had, (which sounds like less that you had) we would 99% win an appeal, not that it came to that. Plus it's not illegal to go over 30 in year 3 and above (unless things have changed since then)
Not sure she actually dealt with appeals, but she may be able to give advice (at a cost!) PM me for her details if you like.

Thank you daisybank2, I must admit I read your post from a few years back and it gave me some reasurrance.

Unfortunately our school is a VA one and the LEA won't get involved plus there's no exceptional social or medical need in the admissions criteria.

I suspect our headteacher would be the same, ie. happy to admit her but doesn't want to be the one to do it! The parents are known as the 'playground mafia'. I guess we will know based on how much effort the school puts into their case.

So glad your daughter was re-admitted. When it's a case of a child's health being at stake and doctors are involved, you'd hope sense would prevail.

Oh no - unbelievable that they don't include exceptional social or medical in the admissions criteria! Are they really allowed to remove this category?
Could still be worth you contacting educational consultant - Bowker Consulting - they may have a few tips for you! Good luck!

Yes, they don't have to have a category for social or medical needs. The only compulsory category is looked after children.

Hi all,

Still waiting for a reply to my questions to the school re pupil numbers etc (they are their own admissions authority). It's been 3 weeks since my original e-mail to them and I've since sent 2 chaser e-mails with no response. Just a "we're working on it" from them would be nice.

Granted the hearing isn't for another 3 weeks so I am I being impatient? Do I just have to wait until they decide to provide the info, if at all?

I would like to spend time looking at capacity issues and previous oversubscription etc. Feel like I'm very much in the dark at the moment.

Did you put it in as a "freedom of information" request? They have to be answered within 28 days I think.

There should be no need for an FoI request. The rights under the Appeals Code are more appropriate and better.

I'd keep chasing them. They must answer your question before the hearing. They can't just rock up at the hearing with an answer. Remember that all you are really interested in is whether they've been over PAN before. If they have it gives you an argument that they can cope. Even better if they've been over capacity. In general, other arguments about capacity won't get you anywhere unless they have added more classrooms without changing capacity.

Hello again,

We have finally received answers to some of our questions to the school but they are very vague and they’ve skirted around several of them with ‘average’ figures.

For example, when asked about net capacity they replied:

“There is no maximum and minimum net capacity. A workplace is a unit of measurement. The net capacity is currently set at the maximum workplaces available. Please Note: 'The net capacity method measures the area available in units known as 'workplaces'. Workplaces are used as the unit of measurement to ensure that the spaces in schools are weighted fairly. This is because different activities require different types of space, which in turn require very different floor areas to accommodate the same number of pupils. For instance a classroom of 50m 2 and a gymnasium of 260m 2 will both accommodate a class of 30.' (Ref: Assessing the Net Capacity of Schools ' Guidance)”

Is this because they are VA?

They have also said their pupil/teacher ratio is 1:30 which I don’t think is correct as the national average is around 20 and the ‘compare schools’ government website says the school was at 21 for the last academic year.

Should I just give up on trying to get usable answers from the school before the appeal?

No, it isn't because they are VA. It is because they are being unhelpful. However, they have said that the net capacity is set at the maximum number of workplaces which is the maximum net capacity so pursuing that further won't be helpful.

Regarding the pupil/teacher ratio, the school and the "compare schools" website are talking about different things. The "compare schools" website looks at the number of full time equivalent teachers employed by the school to calculate the ratio, so includes teachers in leadership roles who rarely teach. The school is looking at its actual class size. A school near me has a pupil/teacher ratio of 21.7 according to the government but it actually operates with an average class size of 29.

Thanks Prh,

I've now received their case.

The positive thing is that they're currently over PAN in year 3, 4 and 6. So we can argue that they've coped before. I'm guessing they haven't had any accidents caused by overcrowding (they didn't answer my question about this) and they have had excellent results in these years. They also have a low number of SEN pupils in yr 3.

Negative things include the fact that the classrooms are small (below 56m2) although they have a 25m2 shared practical area outside each pair of classrooms that they use extensively, so it's rare to have all 30 or 30+ pupils in a classroom.

They talk a lot about the potential pressure to pupil numbers of current appeals for early years (and future in-year ones). They also mention the one pupil on the yr3 waiting list and that due to a sibling link, they rank above us.

I have read on Netmums that the panel is not supposed to consider the potential result of other appeals or waiting lists when they consider each individual appeal Is this correct?

It seems that much of their argument centres around a general worry about future threats to pupil numbers.

Sorry, that should have read "They also have a low number of SEN pupils in yr 2". Obviously we are appealing for yr3 in September, which is the current yr2 year group.

Waiting lists are not relevant for appeals at all. Nor are possible future appeals. However, if there are a number of appeals scheduled for the same year in the same school the panel won't decide any of them until they have heard them all. If they decide that the school can cope with some of the children but not all they will then compare cases and admit those with the strongest case.

No appeal panel is supposed to know how many are on the waiting list, as it is completely irrelevant to the decisions to be made. That the admission authority is saying not only is there a waiting list but the appellant is not top of the waiting list is wrong. I would actually say that is disadvantaging you, as the clear inference by the admission authority is that somebody else is above you in the waiting list which is a reason not to admit your child. I would actually make the point at the appeal by asking the admission authority why they believe the waiting list has any relevance to the appeal. If they fall into the trap of trying to believe it is, then you should be making it clear to the panel that you object to this as it does not have any relevance.
From what you have said, the argument to not admit seems to be a typical average case and therefore you need to present a strong set of reasons for this school in part 2 of the appeal.

Hello again,

Unfortunately our appeal wasn't successful, which would be easier to accept if we had been happy about the way it was conducted. Several things happened that I was disappointed and surprised about. I am considering making a complaint but I don't know if I have grounds.

Here are some examples:

(1) The panel was made aware of our waiting list position and that there was a family ahead of us on the list.
(2) The panel was made aware of the fact that other appeals were taking place (for different years) and that 2 had already been successful. This effectively means families with appeals scheduled at the start of the appeals period have an advantage over those scheduled at the end. Much of the school's case focussed on them potentially having a high overall number on roll in September due to a lot of appeals. Although most of these were for early years with possibly one other for year 3.
(3) The school failed to answer several of my questions before the appeal (whether they'd had accidents due to overcrowding & historical numbers on roll)
(4) During the hearing the representative for the school (a governor) twice refused to answer our representative's question as to whether my daughter's admission would mean the school would have to hire another teacher.
(5) A week before the hearing we had asked if I could represent myself on speaker phone during the hearing (we are still overseas and used a representative in the end). We were told the question had been put to the Chair but we never received a response and assumed they had said no. 15 minutes into the appeal I received a text message to say I could speak. With no advance warning I was flustered and had to do it all whilst sat in a parked car on the street!
(6) The representative for the school treated the appeal as if it was an infant class one, quoting that specific legislation. She talked about how the "allocated school" was more suitable for us in terms of distance and this was also noted in the decision letter. This was not an 'allocated' school though, but one we applied for as a plan B, which I almost wish we hadn't as the school used it against us. Distance isn't an issue for us (the appeal school is only a mile from our house anyway).
(6) The decision letter doesn't give any specifics about how my daughter being admitted would cause prejudice to the school, just that it's reached its PAN, it's over its net capacity and the class sizes are below the DfE recommended minimum. I was expecting further details to give the decision meaning and to help me come to terms with it. Our representative, who has a lot of experience on both sides of the appeal table says the letter doesn't comply with the appeals code.

Are these things that are worth complaining to the Ombudsman about or are they just things that weren't ideal but we have to accept? I can't help feeling we didn't get a fair shot at it :-(

Taking your points in order:

(1) Very poor practice but not directly against the Appeals Code. However, if the panel took that information into account in making its decision that would be a breach.

(2) That is a breach of the Appeals Code. Paragraph 2.18 says that all appeals must be heard by the same panel unless this is not reasonably practical and no decisions taken by that panel until all appeals have been heard. There is nothing in the Code that allows them to use different appeal panels for different years. Where it is not possible for the same panel to hear all the appeals, each panel must make its own decisions independently. Telling them the results of other appeals undermines that.

(3) That is also a breach of the Appeals Code. They should have been able to answer the accidents question in the hearing (and personally I wouldn't have asked it before then) but historical numbers are potentially relevant and should have been supplied. And, since you asked about accidents, they should have answered that too.

(4) I am surprised your representative asked that question. It is the kind of question the appeal panel might ask rather than the appellant in my view. It is up to the school to say what prejudice would be caused by admission of an additional pupil. Unless their case said they would need an additional teacher I would expect the panel to assume that they would cope with existing staff. And it is not unreasonable for the school to wait until appeals are over before making decisions.

(5) There is nothing in the Appeals Code about this but it is poor organisation.

(6) It does indeed sound like the decision letter does not comply with the Appeals Code.

My view is that you have a decent case for another hearing with a different panel. I wouldn't personally raise point 4 with the LGO but I would raise all the others, concentrating on the items that are in breach of the Appeals Code (points 2, 3 and 6) and items that are potentially in breach (point 1), but also throwing in point 5 as it shows poor organisation and suggests they don't know what they are doing.

Thanks Prh, you've been so helpful throughout this process. I will make a complaint and post my progress on here.

@prh47bridge can i message you? Looking for advice on year 8 appeal desperately

Feel free