Primary school - 3rd on waiting list?

[YorkshireAccent]

We’ve got a place for my DS for reception, but the school was Ofsted-ed in March and basically it’s your worst nightmare, Requires Improvement in every area (Good when we applied), everything looks awful. There’s obviously action in place to improve things, and it’s undergoing lots of changes, but just in case we’re still not happy after we’ve met the Head and had another look round, we’ve asked to be added to the waiting list of another lovely school we saw.

This morning we’ve found out we’re 3rd on the list. Any chances of us starting there in Reception, or is 3rd considered quite high up the list? Anyone have any experience with waiting lists?

TIA!

Call the school and ask. They can usually tell you if waiting lists tend to move a lot, or not.

It can depend on a lot of things:

• Number of children - with a 90 intake it is more likely that 3 children will leave/change their minds than with a 15 intake.
• Transient area - some areas just have more movement in and out than others.
• Local private schools - the type and availability of private schools locally can affect how fast waiting lists move at state schools.
• Other nearby schools - If another school close by has had a scandal, or a terrible OFSTED, people are more likely to sit tight on their 'safe' places.

My friend was 5th place on the waiting list for reception. She is now 1st place on the waiting list. It is exactly four years later. Sometimes things just don't move. The year above though has 6 free spaces, no waiting list at all for a long time!

Thanks so much brilliotic, that’s really helpful, I will drop the school an email. I’ve no experience with this as DS is our first DC at school, and we weren’t expecting to have to go on waiting lists - the Ofsted of the school we did get into was a bit of a surprise!

Just remember that schools that are 'inadequate' will often have resources poured into them.

Also remember that the waiting list is held in order of admissions priority, so you can move down as well as up!

snowy yes, I know it wouldn’t be the end of the world for DS to attend the school he’s currently got a space at. I appreciate the LA will be keeping a close eye on progress, I believe it has a new head, and is already starting to improve. But the ofsted was really poor, my heart sank when I read it by chance when checking what the uniform was. Plus, I don’t know any other parents as we’re brand new to the area, and DS attends a different nursery to the one at the school, so I’ve got no ‘insider’ knowledge of the school at all.

Ofsted-ed in March and basically it’s your worst nightmare, Requires Improvement in every area (Good when we applied), everything looks awful.

So the previous inspection was sometime in or not much earlier than the first half of January this year? No, if the school had an 'awful' Ofsted inspection report in March of this year, it was almost certainly just as 'awful' when you submitted your application. So either there were obvious, glaringly awful things before your eyes when you looked at the school, but you (consciously or otherwise) ignored them because 'it's an Ofsted 'Good' school, so whatever I see is Good', or you saw a school that genuinely didn't look like somewhere you wouldn't want to send your child, but about which an Ofsted inspector would express a a somewhat unfavourable official opinion. I'd be willing to bet that if you popped in to the school tomorrow and had another look round, it would look very little different from how it did when you first went to view it.

marching how helpful It’s not as easy as that though is it, it’s our catchment school, there was little chance of us getting in elsewhere. There’s two other oversubscribed schools in the area. Of course I wouldn’t ignore ‘glaringly awful’ problems and apply anyway. What I saw of the school looked fine, that’s why the Ofsted was such a shock.

Was it really poor or was it RI? It’s difficult to tell from your posts.

I think Marching is trying to be helpful. If you didn’t notice any issues when you looked round, the report was RI and not inadequate and there’s a new head who is making changes then you probably don’t have much to worry about if you don’t get a place elsewhere. There’s every likelihood the school will be good in 6 months time.

"Requires improvement" used to be Satisfactory.

I've posted this anecdote many times on MN, but possibly worth repeating here.

My DC used to attend an infants school that was assessed by Ofsted as "Good with outstanding features". Parents raved about it, and said how happy they were with the school, how pleased they were they go in etc. etc. Then Ofsted came visiting again and gave it a "Requires improvement rating". Overnight the mood in the playground changed, and many parents started saying that they'd never been happy with the school and were fed up of all the things that were wrong etc etc.

The school clearly hadn't changed overnight, it was just people's mindset.

RafaIsTheKingOfClay and RedSkyAtNight, yes, exactly what I meant - of course the OP didn't see awful things and ignore them, the school she saw and was not unhappy with was going to be the same as the school the inspectors saw. Just they are looking at specific things in a specific way. 'Outstanding' schools can be pretty uncongenial places to learn - and work - in. So the school was in a higher category at its previous inspection, but hasn't maintained the standards which made it 'good' then - but the new head has acknowledged shortcomings and will address them.

Depending on when the previous inspection was, if the school had been judged them by the current Ofsted standards, it might not have looked so great them, either. 'Officially', that is. If it is oversubscribed, then presumably it looked good to service users then - just as it presumably did until the previous inspection became out of date in March?

RedSky I agree.

However sometimes it does open people's eyes up to things they hadn't thought about, and then they realise they are now concerned. Obviously saying that they've "never been happy" is not true, but it wouldn't be unreasonable for parents to look at the report and think "actually I am worried about this."

An example there was a family member told me their school had been labelled "inadequate" in almost every area, but it was a load of rubbish and they were being unfair. I looked at the report and came back with that just from the facts I would have concerns. For example: Achievement level was less than half the national average (nice middle class school too) and dropping each year for the last five years. If it hadn't been for the report they'd never have looked at the results.

Also Ofsted Outstanding schools can date back a long time. Local to me I can think of an infant school labelled outstanding in around 2006. They've been through 2 further headteachers and I don't think there's a member of staff other than one TA that is still there. It's a totally different school to the one inspected. I think (from what I know-and no I'm not a teacher there) that if anything it's got better. However the level to get Outstanding has also gone up, so they wouldn't necessarily still be awarded it.

One of ours got inadequate with the comment that children started school working above expectations, were broadly in line with national expectations at the end of ks1 and below by the end of ks2. The HT just brushed this off and decided that it was the Ofsted regime that was the issue.

Another school went from inadequate to good within a couple of years with a new HT who was honest about what the issues were and was quick to start implementing changes.

I really wouldn't worry too much if the school are aware of where their issues lie and you don't get into one of the other schools you are on a waiting list for.

Marching you're making an assumption that a visit to the school tells you everything you need to know which is a bit odd to me.

Most schools I visited seemed very similar and the headteachers came out with similar platitudes. There is plenty you can't tell from a visit! Are the children set appropriate work to match their ability? Do they get feedback on their work? Is there good support in place for G&T students and for SEN students? How much progress do students make?

Yorkshire what size is the school you are on the waiting list for? If its a tiny village school that take 15 pupils a year the likelihood of three places free up is very different to a school with 4 forms of entry e.g. 120 places. No one can give you a definitive answer because there are lots of factors - it the the "must go to" school in the area or is there another school in that category? If there is another school locally viewed as the one to get into its means a pupils would give up a place at your waiting list school if they were offered a place at the other school. Is in an area where people move frequently or somewhere people settle long term? Even with all that info it's hard to say as things still vary year to year and school to school. It may be that at a certain point those ahead of you on the list settle for the school they have because children have been through the induction process, they have brought uniforms etc and come of the list or they may have summer borns that they are happy it keep out of the school they are allocated and hang on for a spot at the waiting list school.