Year 2 parents: would you give your consent?

[cloudyweewee]

I teach Y2 in a suburb of Birmingham and have been asked to take the class to a daytime concert in the centre of Birmingham. I assumed we would be going by coach, but we are in fact going to be travelling by bus and then will have a 15 minute walk from the bus stop to the venue. Then obviously we will have the return journey later in the afternoon. Several parents have not given their permission as they are worried about their children using public transport when there will only be 4 adults (me, TA and 2 others) supervising them.What are your views as parents? I can't say I'm entirely happy about it either!

Our village is not well served by buses so many children may well never have taken a bus. However we do have a railway station and the Reception class have gone on at least one trip by train with a similar ratio and walk either end.

So for me it would depend on how bus-savvy the children were likely to be; and how likely it would be that they'd all get on the same bus together (if they had to split across two or three that would be unacceptable with that number of adults).

What if the bus is full? This seems a bit crazy. I have no problem with kids using public transport but with a train you can at least reserve seats etc ahead of time - the bus is just too unreliable. Is it the expense of hiring a coach that puts the head off? And as for not wanting parent helpers, that's mad? It's easy to do the DBS checks... Or is that an expense issue too?

I'd be fine with it. DD is going into Y2 in September.

Your ratio seems low. And what happens if bit all kids get on the bus as theirs no room?

You end up with one staying behind with all the kids who cant get on.

I'd rather pay a bit extra and get a coach

I would have wanted a couple more adults for that trip at that age, so I might well have not given permission. My DD's primary tended to go mob handed for KS1 trips involving any form of public transport.

Not enough adults. My school often uses London underground for this age group as we are right beside a station but always have at least 6 adults including teacher.

To hire a coach, the coast for each child would be £10, but on the bus it's £2.40 so I think cost was a major factor. The Head won;t have parent helpers, as we have had problmes in the past- e.g. parents smoking on a trip etc

Don't understand the heads no parent helper rule. I have worked in many schools and never come across this..
I'm sorry but I would say no.
4 adult to 30 children is not enough.

We travel by bus all the time with my year 1 class. We have 24 kids so 4 adults is enough for a ratio of 1:6. We are in London so maybe the buses and passengers are more used to it but we normally all fit on the top deck. One adult gets on and leads the kids upstairs, one counts them on, one waits until everyone is on so no one is left behind.

We usually have a couple of parent helpers but they are not a massive help tbh. The bus drivers are very good and don't move off until all the kids have sat down. People often give up their seats too which is nice but not expected.

The kids walk in 2s, so each adult keeps an eye on 3 pairs. In your class it would be 4 pairs maybe. Don't be afraid to ask the driver to wait for the kids to be settled and tell them where you are getting off so they will make sure they wait until you say everyone is off.

Also they are year 2 so most of them are 7 and should be able to follow instructions. Parents who are saying "no way would I give consent", what is it you are worried about?

I am a licenced chaperone and work with kids in performing arts. Maximum chaperoning ratio is 1:12. I don’t like it when I have that many and the usual ratio is 1:8.

If the other people going on the trip are all teachers or TAs, know the children and are used to herding around large groups of children then I would have no problems with four adults and 30 kids. If two of the four are inexperienced then I would have an issue.

I also work with children and wouldn't be happy with this ratio. For those questioning the children's behaviour- it's not about that. At the age these children are, if one falls over say and cuts a knee, two adults will need to deal with that. That leaves two adults to ensure that the remaining (I'm assuming numbers) 29 children are safe and supervised. Say this happens in the town centre it's going to be busy, chaotic and noisy. It's just a risk I wouldn't take with this age group, I'd want six adults and the organisation I work for would want this ratio for that age group too.

But how many children will there be? 30? Or fewer?

The kids walk in 2s, so each adult keeps an eye on 3 pairs

It's not that simple. What if one adult is dealing with an issue, paying for the bus tickets, looking at the map?

Yes really Bower. I mean I’m only a lowly part time PPA teacher so I don’t have much to do with this sort of thing but my school definitely changed the wording of trip letters several years ago. Now it’s more like ‘Dear Parents, we will be taking class x to place x on this date as part of x topic.’ If there’s anything to pay then it will explain that but I don’t think they actually have a consent slip. Some parents didn’t want their children to go into Manchester a couple of years ago (scared about terrorism) but I think they only way they could ensure their children didn’t go was to keep them off school that day. Head usually says if they’re in school, they go on the trip.

The minimum ratio for that age is 1:6 (although I'm in London so you may have different rules). If the head won't allow parents, which is understandable due to poor behaviour, they need to release more staff.
I've taken 4-5 year olds on buses, tubes and even have had to do a tube change! It's simple as long as you have a good number of adults. It meant I could have a small group and keep an eye on the situation as a whole.
I think you're within your rights to say you're not prepared to take them without a fair number if adults. The parents who won't give permission are normally told their child will be put into another class for the day.

Parents have to give consent if we go out of the immediate area. A general permission slip is signed at the beginning of the year but that only covers things like a trip to the library/swimming baths etc which are about a 10 minute walk from school.

I think you need at least one extra adult. Have you got any children likely to wander or a flight risk? What if there wasn't enough space on the bus?

*The kids walk in 2s, so each adult keeps an eye on 3 pairs

It's not that simple. What if one adult is dealing with an issue, paying for the bus tickets, looking at the map?*

Then the group stops while the issue is sorted and the tickets are paid for. I'm assuming the adults know the way as they will have done a pre visit or they know the area very well.

What's the protocol going to be of the kids and up having to stand on the bus?

On a coach they'd be garunteed a seat and probably even get a seat belt.

But buses get crowded and there aren't always seats you obviously have to free up space for a wheelchair or a guide dog or elderly people who need the seat etc

What if you are split over a double decker? You have 3 to 25 up stairs and one with the remaining 5 down.etc

Alot if variables you can't plan for.

What of someone starts yelling at the driver ?

Someone stinking of weed on the bus

Someone drunk getting on the bus sitting next to or near a chikd?

Bus breaks down?

And yes I've had all these things happen over my many years if bus usage.

I taught for years in London, so yes I would give consent with no issue. Much more fun to travel by public transport for the children!

I teach in London and we take children on the bus/tube right from reception, as do many other schools as it's free. I would like a 1:6 ratio for the trip you mention if the children aren't used to travelling on the bus.

Our school sends out an annual consent form for trips at the beginning of every year. Parents need to give consent but it can vary from school to school how they do it.
I teach Reception.. .our ratio for trips is 1:5 so we take a minimum of 6 adults.. usually CT, CA & 4 parent helpers. We choose the parents carefully....often the ones who help regularly in class as they know the children.
If we go on public transport (usually the metro) we take more parents ...I worry about getting all the children on & off before the doors close, & getting up & down the steep escalators at the end.
As a parent I would allow my daughter to go but would prefer more than 4 adults for the transport part.
I recently accompanied my daughter's year 4 dance group on a trip to town....24 kids plus CT, .CA & me on public transport. It was fine.

Hard to tell OP if we don't know how many are in your class yet.

To those saying hire a coach....coaches are VERY expensive. Not all parents can afford it & then school has to pay...schools are already struggling with their budgets.
Our school goes out a lot. If we didn't use public transport we would be depriving the children of many experiences. Our school buys an annual metro pass & when a class uses it we ask for £1 contribution from each child to cover the cost of the pass. In Reception we have 2 or 3 coach trips per year, & about 2 using the metro. We also walk a few times to a museum, which takes about 20-30 mine to walk to.

There are 30 in the class.