Red card sanctions in reception

[Taddi]

Hi! My DS, who is 5, attends a school which employs the traffic light system for behaviour. He has previously had one red card this year, when him and two other reception children hit a year 2 child in September (which is fine, I understand that one!!!)

But when I picked him up from school today, the teacher told me that DS had been put on red because he’d been “in his own little world all day, staring into space and not listening.”

I was furious, but felt I couldn’t say anything because all the other parents were listening queing right behind us waiting for the teacher to let their children go.

I don’t understand how you can put a child on a red card for, what is essentially, daydreaming. It’s not disrupting or hurting anyone, and not putting him in danger. In my experience at home, DS only does this when he’s bored or not being stimulated enough. He’s not hard work, and doesn’t have any challenging behaviours.

I think this daydreaming is a result of him being so tired (he knows half term is this weekend) and not being stimulated/challenged enough in class, as he’s one of the eldest, and doing really well in his reading, literacy and numeracy, which usually, in my experience as a nursery nurse, means that the teachers will just leave him to it, and focus on the children who aren’t doing as well.

But having mental health issues, I know that I wouldn’t be able to confront the teacher about this, (I’m not able to express my feelings very well verbally, and am often misunderstood, then I get frustrated and give up) so just wondered if anyone had any advice? I don’t want DS being labelled as a troublemaker (since he’s now had the most red cards in his class) and that reputation affecting the rest of his school life.

I also don’t want to be the trouble making mum! (The teacher and I got off to a bad start over reading books- despite them having his reading record from nursery, they started him on picture books, when he was already able to read simple sentences of 3-4 words... then I think I annoyed her by telling her that I don’t like the phonic system, and won’t use it with him at home (I never learned to read using phonics, and I find it unhelpful when sounding out words, since in some words the letters aren’t the right sound at all, and it was frustrating DS so much!!!) - in case anyone was wondering how I confronted her about this, it was via little messages to and fro in his reading record book!!!)

TIA!

also as she overreacts to so called “behavioural issues” (most of the mums know the drill at the school as they’ve already had children there).

So he's being bold then I take it. Not listening and misbehaving...interesting.

The cut thing is a nothing as I'm assuming he didn't notice it either - how bad can it have been?

then I think I annoyed her by telling her that I don’t like the phonic system, and won’t use it with him at home

Do you tell other people how to do their jobs?
Do you tell the plumber that they are fitting the taps wrong or the electrician that they are wiring a socket wrong?

I think that whereas it might be a proportionate response to daydreaming, it always depends on the context. It sounds like red cards at this particular school/in this class are a rare consequence, reserved for worst kinds of misbehaving. Not something to use for minor things. And probably will usually only be given out after several warnings/more minor consequences, except in extreme cases.

So I would want to know, did the child get warnings? How did the teacher address the 'daydreaming' (during the whole day) - if at all? Did they just tell the child to 'focus', but without actually doing anything to help the child focus? I was once helping a 5yo in Y1 who was having trouble focusing, to complete a piece of written work, in the classroom. It was agonising. In 45 minutes the child (usually much more productive) managed the date, their name, and one sentence. The difference in this scenario being, the teacher recognised that the child was having a very 'distracted' day and did what she could to help the child remain on task (i.e. delegated me, a parent helper, to sit with the child and constantly re-focus them onto the task at hand). Rather than ignore the child and then at the end of the day reprimand them for daydreaming!
In fact I feel one of the biggest challenges in Y1 (especially at the beginning of the year) is to get all children to focus on their work at least for a little bit. In one hour sessions e.g. maths, I (still parent helper, directed to do so by the teacher) would often move from child to child, supporting each one for a few minutes, before moving to the next - and for many children, these few minutes where the only time they actually did any maths work during that hour.

Lots of people on this thread have simply assumed that the child will have had lots of reminders throughout the day, and that the teacher will have been giving the child a lot of attention (hence saying that daydreaming is disruptive, as it monopolises the teacher's attention) - but, teachers being human and some of them not being particularly good at some aspects of their job (not all teachers can be brilliant at every aspect of teaching) - it is entirely possible IMO and given OP's description, that the child was left to their own devices, daydreaming in a corner, not bothering anyone nor getting any teacher attention. Then at the end of the day, teacher realises the child has produced no work (or no evidence of work) all day, and instead of telling herself she ought to have noticed and done something about it, ought to have supported the child in focusing on their work, she reprimands the child - going straight to red card, no warnings/amber level/whatever.

In which case no, it is not ok.

My ds is a day dreamer. He is often away with fairies. If I was told by the teacher that he was put on red card because he didn't respond to the former warnings and kept on day dreaming, I would be really embarrassed and cross with him. Yes, I know he can't help it sometimes, but it's still disrespectful to the teacher, and he needs to learn to concentrate.

brilliotic, Op said there are only 10 children in the class. I just assumed it's very unlikely OP's dc has been left to his own device all day.

Once, in Y1, my goody-two-shoes DD broke down in tears at bedtime, and old me that she’d been put ‘peg down’ and would have to miss 5 mins of break the following day. She was devastated, having never previously received any type of behaviour warning. When she described it to me, it sounded like the teacher overreacted a bit. (The whole table had written their name on the front of their ‘display’ work instead of the back as the teacher had instructed)

Did I speak to the teacher about it? Of course not! Instead I had a useful conversation with DD about what she should learn from the experience (listen more carefully to instructions), and also about the fact that teachers are human beings and might just occasionally come down a bit harsh at the end of a particularly trying day. I also explained gently to DD that life isn’t always fair.

At the next parents’ evening the teacher mentioned the incident (as DD had been very upset about it in class), and indeed it had been a snap decision on a tough day.

The red card sounds like a one-off. Of course, if this keeps being an issue you will need to speak to the teacher, but based on this one case, just talk to your DS about what he can learn from this. Make sure you don’t criticise the teacher to your young child.

I, like my son, was also one of the top in the class, so I know what it’s like to be bored and distracted when the teacher has to repeat things over and over and pays no attention to you because you’re waiting for the others to catch up!

You need to get past the idea that being top of the class means it’s ok to ignore the teacher.

It’s not.

I fairly regularly see the view expressed on MN that poor behaviour is only to be expected in very very bright children.

It’s nonsense.

He disrupted the class, more than likely several times. That’s why he got a red card.

If you are genuinely concerned you could check the schools behaviour policy. That should outline when yellow and red cards are given. Often a yellow card is given initially and then a red card can be used for persistently avoiding instruction for example. I can see how it sounds harsh when children get the same for physical behaviour however it is expected that children engage whilst at school.

I don't have much time for red card type systems so young, a 5yo may not even have enough self awareness to notice they are daydreaming or failing to listen. More likely tired, bored, distracted or deliberately ignoring for some reason.

However, having got two challenging boys through primary school, I would say it's far better to develop a collaborative relationship with the staff as it may save you when things get tricky. Suck it up with the phonics, none of us learned it but it is the thing now.

Try not to take it so personally. It is a behaviour management tool to control the behaviour in order to encourage a good environment for the entire class. It is not to label your child as a trouble maker. My son in year 1 has been on red twice. Once for play fighting and once more recently for failure to complete set work on time due to day dreaming. He was sent to the head teacher who kept in him at lunch time to complete the work.
At 5, this seems harsh but I also know my child and yes indeed at times he struggles to focus. I also have faith and trust in his teachers and I KNOW that for these 2 reds in two years of schools he has probably been let off lightly 10 more times.
He was terribly upset and felt so hard done by but we held firm and backed the teacher/head all the way. Try to do the same you will help your son much more this way. Work with the school.

Learning phonics is not just for learning to read, it's also offee for learning to write. Any school your ds had gone too would also have taught phonics. You sound like you are being a difficult parent. Choosing a school for your child will always be a bit of a compromise as no school is ever going to be completely perfect and meet all your exact expectations. However, what's really important is that on the big things, like the teaching of reading, writing and maths, you really do need to support the school in their methods, or go to another school.

It's also for learning to write.

He wouldn't have got a red card 'just because'. She will have told him numerous times until she felt she had no option but to give him a red card.
You either get on board with the school or you would be better off going elsewhere. (Where they will also do phonics and expect you as a parent to help reinforce it at home!).

I agree with others, re: phonics. My ds learned to read without it. He has almost photographic memory. But still, knowledge of phonics helped him a lot. Once you start to lean more complicated words, knowing phonics rules, and having good memory will be a perfect skill to have. They will never have any problem with learning new words. They can read any new words with phonics, and can remember any new words once they have seen it.

“It’s not disrupting or hurting anyone, and not putting him in danger”

Yet he cut his chin open on the same day. And you don’t think this is down to the daydreaming and you don’t think it’s odd that he didn’t tell an adult, so no one noticed until an hour later? Your first reaction is, how did the teacher not notice him when she’s only got 10 kids to watch and teach.

You say not paying attention didn't put him or others in any danger but he did manage to cut his chin open in class? That sounds like he was doing something daft at the very least.

You also keep on about him being top but he won't stay there if he's not leading phonics, so much of the curriculum and assessments rely on this knowledge. My Dd could read fluently when she started school. She still had to learn phonics, even though she picked it up quickly. In yr 1 she can now read all about dinosaurs and science and other subjects with long complicated new words because she can sound them out.

Instead on being up in arms maybe use it as a good resilience lesson, teach him that sometimes not listening and paying attention will get him in trouble, and what he should have done if he was indeed 'bored'. My Dd can be daydream-y but she knows (now, after work) that she should ask the teacher what she can do next, or see if she can add anything to make the work more interesting, e.g. more adjectives etc in writing work.