Renting in catchment

[worriedandstressedAAA]

Ok, so don't shoot me but I am at my wits end about what to do for year 7 for DS, 10. We need to apply this October. DS is middle ability, sporty and not motivated at all. Our choices are the local comprehensive which is really rough and has poor exam results year on year or to go private. We've been looking at privates and it's becoming clear to me that DS does not stand a chance of getting into any of the good private schools in North London where we live. We may have a chance at some of the other privates, e.g. North Bridge House, but have visited and wasn't overly impressed and am not convinced it's any better than a good (and free) state secondary. There are two outstanding state secondaries a 10 minute drive from where we live with miniscule catchments. I am seriously considering renting in the catchment area for 12-18 months to get DS a place. I've read the borough's admissions policy and it seems it's ok to do this provided that we stay at least 12 months and genuinely live in the property. None of us want to move but seems to be the only way to get DS into a decent school. Lots of other families in the area seem to be making the same move. It's a massive decision though and still not sure if we should do it or keep exploring the private sector. Can anyone advise what we should do.

Are you in borough H? I don't think they are as explicit as other boroughs but I think that they will all go the way of, for example, Camden, who state:

^Camden will not accept a temporary address if you still possess a property that was previously used as a home address, or a temporary address used solely or mainly to obtain a school place. We consider temporary accommodation a place where you have lived for a year
or less prior to the closing date of 31 October 2017 (including rented, bought or living with a family member or friend).^

You would have to sell your home and move properly. Then what happens if the golden school gets a bad Ofsted or it suddenly becomes the place to avoid. This does happen - school near us went from Outstanding to Special Measures, academised etc. And, without wanting to sound self-righteous, what you are proposing is ethically wrong. I know it feels unfair that others have a better choice of schools, but what you're proposing in effect allows you to buy a place over another child that would have been offered it genuinely.

There is a bit of a gap in North London for private schools that take more middling boys - it's much easier for girls. Have you looked at Forest? I thought it was fantastic.

hibbledibble. The OP has already confirmed with her LA that as long as her other house isn’t available , ie is rented out, then it’s ok.

If you're that worried about grades then just get a private tutor ?? Will cost less than a private school.

As the old Latvian problem saying goes... 'With money you buy problems'

If I have worked it out correctly, based on your comment regarding the stamp duty equalling 5 years of private school fees, you live in a house that is worth at least 1.5M pounds. Yup, it is probably a little difficult to work out what the next step is, given the fact that, poor DS1 is not as bright or motivated as perhaps one might have hoped. Luckily, the private sector is largely dedicated to finding privileged places for averagely academic but sporty boys.

It never ceases to amaze me on MN the amount of discussion that goes on around private schools which educate only 7% of our children... and here I am adding to it!!

Farewell, visited Forest and loved it but have heard it's very oversubscribed. Same with Belmont Mill Hill which we loved. Apparently Forest gets 800 applications for 70 places and Belmont 350 for 45 places so the odds aren't great. I think he will definitely have a shot and his sporting ability may help but it's by no means certain. I know several bright boys who didn't get into Belmont this year. And yes, we are in borough H! Are you?

Just read the admissions policy once again and think there is too much grey area and too much risk. It is was more explicit then I wouldn't even consider it but the ambiguity made me think it was a possibility. Have pretty much decided against moving now. Will have to try privates, look at other options or consider properly moving. It may be worth it.

The system 'encourages ' this because of the differences between school.

We have the same issue where we live, SE, grammar system and in some areas poor alternatives if child is not highly academic.

Loads of people spend thousands on tutoring . What is the difference? It is all on the same spectrum!

Make the decision best for you, while you are sitting contemplating some other parent has already moved!

I cannot believe I am advocating this however the system is so crap what are people supposed to do?

I think Forest is more like 600 for 120 places and you have to remember that they'll be over-offering by potentially three or four times. So in other words, it might be more like 600 applying for 400 offers (I don't know exact figures).

I hear perfectly positive things about HW too (if that's your local school v AP or F). Plus all the cards get thrown up in the air very early on in y7 as people don't turn up, move, take other offers etc.

Secondary transfer is such an unnerving, unstable time that I wouldn't add moving and possibly having the offer rescinded into the mix.

Thanks Farewell, that's good advice. What have you heard re AP and F? Worth moving for v HW?

there and as other posters have pointed out, if this is the borough mentioned above (and I have a good idea that it is based on the schools mentioned) then that is in fact not the case.

Haringey Council are really detailed on checking I know from friends, that they will come over to your old house and speak to your old neighbours about your reasons for moving and they do other spot checks. I have several friends in this situation. Its and extremely high risk and stressful, which I why I won't do it and will go on a waiting list route as our catchments have shrunk leaving us in no mans land. My husband was keen to rent but I know that it is really high risk now. What if your friend invites someone over to where you live if you move back, there are so many ways in which you will be shopped and your son or daughter will have to move school. Kids just disappear in the year and lose their places. There are lot of people who know you who would report you too. Painful as it is we are in a similar situation so I do know how you feel, except we have no local school to send our child to - they are all oversubscribed this year and it will be worse for the next 2 years with bulge classes coming through. Haringey council are not going to do anything about it as well, Ive already asked! Good luck.

Sorry meant to say if your child invites a friend over and finds out that you don't live where you are supposed , just that there are so many ways of finding out I'm afraid. The council is totally on it and as are the teachers in the primaries if they hear the will report back too Im afraid. That is what my teacher friend is saying in a primary in Crouch End, she has kids locally so is on the look out! Gawd.

Plenty of people rent within the catchment of Ap and my experience is that Haringey have not the will nor the ability to check. AP is a great school. Honestly though if he's truly middle ability then he will get into Mill Hill. Mill Hill is the back up school for all the other schools and that's the reason the number of applications is so high.

Going against the grain here a bit - I know people on MN always say LAs check and all, but (N London here too) there are definitely Ofsted outstanding primaries around here where loads of DC come by car or bus, catchment of

The op didn’t want to move and wasn’t genuinely moving but has changed her stance throughout the thread to lie and say she was considering properly moving

Hi worried do what you need too. Lots of others do it but don't say. People who pretend to be of a faith to get into a school - honesty sadly as we know doesn't always pay.

OP those telling you to risk it are giving you bad advice. Haringey may not check carefully, but they do check and your case will have red flags all over it. The likelihood is the place where you rent will have been used by other families in the past, probably quite a few in the past few years. Your DC attend a primary school that is not a traditional feeder, a quick look at records will show you own a home near your DCs primary and council tax records will show you have been living there for years.
I said it earlier in the thread that people are starting to get caught, this is not hearsay, I know families it has happened to. Do some get away with it? Probably, but it's becoming a riskier game.
Often the people you think are playing the game would pass any investigation. Increasingly families don't own and are renting, they can move into a catchment just before deadline day. I know a few families where the parents have split up, they use the address of the parent who lives closest to a perceived better school, regardless of where the child spends the most time.
As I said earlier I work in a Haringey school. A few years ago we would have spotted 1 or 2 per Y6 class who wee renting for secondary places. Looking at where our children are going this year, I don't see any obvious disparities. People are still moving for secondary, but they are doing it legitimately. That is an option you have.

I haven't read the full thread so apologies if I am repeating things said by others.

Renting to get a school place is clearly in breach of the rules.

If you rent whilst owning another property most LAs will use the address of the property you own and ignore the property you rent.

Those LAs that have a problem generally have a blacklist of addresses that have previously been used by people renting in order to get a place at their preferred school. Any application from those addresses will be looked at with suspicion.

People do get caught, both through the checks run by councils as part of the admissions process and through other parents alerting councils to families renting to get school places.

Many people who try renting for a place are caught during the admissions process but never realise they were caught. In this situation the council will use the correct address for the application (i.e the families actual address, not the rented property), so the child will still get a place. It sometimes happens that the family still get a place at their preferred school using the correct address, so renting was pointless. However, as they are unaware of this they will tell people that they beat the system through renting.

If you are caught after offers have been made you are in a worse position. The offer can be withdrawn even after your child has started at school. Your child would then end up at whatever school has places available, which is likely to be an unpopular school which could be a long way from home.

The number of parents caught renting to get places is rising every year. I am sure some people get away with it. But you are cheating and taking a huge risk if you rent just to get a school place.

Thanks all. Applesandpears, how am I lying? I honestly don't want to move. I love our house and where we live. I have changed my position to say we might sell and buy, rather than rent, as renting seems a high risk option according to many of the posts here, even though the admissions policy is not clear on this. It definitely seems to be a grey area that could be construed either way. Just to be clear, I don't WANT to sell our house and move but MIGHT consider doing this if renting for 18 monts is high risk and if it's the only way to get DS into a good school. But probably not due to costs of selling (stamp duty etc).

TBH, I know loads of families who have moved and have never heard of the council taking action or of kids having their places taken away. Unless blatant, i.e. you are not even living at the address, or use a relative's address, I am not sure they are that onto it. DS's primary school wouldn't stand out as a red flag as lots of kids from his school go there as people do move. I am also aware of loads of familites having moved into the area to get into DS's primary. I just don't see any attempt to police it. That said, I don't think I would risk it. There will be loads of other familiies who do though.

I think it's disingenuous to do that. I've known people to rent, because it's quicker to sort and then buy in the catchment. However I think moving back out of catchment again is a bit off. I don't think it would be in breach of rules so I guess you'll get away with it.
Why do people wait so late? We bought our current house when ds1 was in year 3 and I rejected a dozen houses because of the secondary catchment. Everyone thought I was being picky but I was thinking ahead.

Op if you move back to your original house after you get the school place but before your ds actually starts, you will have your offer withdrawn. I know that for sure.

Prhbridge, we saw a house we were thinking of renting. Family had rented it for 4 years and had a 2 year old baby so I doubt it's on any council blacklist.

Regarding people not knowing they have been caught, how does that work? All the good schools around here have a catchment of 0.5 maximum so you would never accidentally end up with a place if LA used your other address. Most good school have a 0.5 catchment area year on year.

Cogar, you make some good points. People moving may be deceptive as they may not own property elsewhere or may be selling to move. I know three families in this category, i.e one family whose parents are separated, dad moved to rent in the catchment, child got a place (not sure if dad intends to stay there permanently or if he owns another property but don't think so); another family who own lots of properties (they rent them out as a business) who have moved into catchment, not sure if they are buying or renting but think the latter and another family who own a property outside Londonn (in Devon) and rent in London, who will move to rent in catchment. Assuming all these are ok? TBH, I am not sure how (morally) these are any different or better than someone who owns a property elswhere. The may be technically ok but morally, why are they better? They are still taking a place away from a local child, correct?

MissEliza, people wait because i) maybe not everyone is organised as you ii) they don't want to increase the commute for their DCs who go to a local primary or iii) they like the area they live in and are only moving for schools so why do it before you need to or iv) a multitude of other reasons.

We obviously wouldn't move back before DS started the school!

CindyLou, do you really think that about Mill Hill? I know kids who didn't get a place who I understood were bright. You also have to think of all the privates in Hampstead etc who try to get in there. Hard for state school kids to compete with kids in the private sector for places.

Years ago we sold up and lived in a rented property for a year in the catchment area for the school we wanted. DS 1 spent year 6 at new primary before getting into the secondary we wanted. By that time we had found a property to buy and remained in the catchment area.

People move house to where they want their kids educated if they have the means to do it...why wouldn't you? The compromise for us was a much smaller house in a lovely area as opposed to a large house in an awful town.

Never regretted it.

Why start the thread anyway? You seem to have made your mind up.