DSS and not getting in year transfer to same school as DS

[moststressfulltimeofmylife]

Backstory: DSS(9) moved in with us at end of March. He alleged to police that his SD had followed him into his room and hurt him. Causing bruising to his leg. Social services and the police are now involved with his DM, SD and other subsequent children at the house.

We applied the same day online, for our local school that my DS(7) attends. We sent off an email with additional information with reference number attached. Including the fact DSS(9) was currently in year 3 at his old school and over the time he’s been with us that I’m home schooling him and believe him to be dyslexic and very behind the curriculum. Also that DS(7) is in the local school (literally 3 streets away).

This morning DP has called admissions and been told that local school has rejected application as class already full. Also that person who’s area it is is out of office today so no further information available until tomorrow. Second place school is just over half a mile away, same headteacher and same start-finish times.

Question is do we have a case to appeal? How are we supposed to be at two schools at the same time? Partner works shifts and I don’t drive. Luckily I’m just about finished for academic year however October I start third year of my degree with no idea of lecture hours etc yet. Are council obliged to provide transport? Or do we strive for a EHCP for dyslexia/learning difficulties then appeal? Sorry it’s so long.

I don't think you would get transport for half a mile. How about breakfast clubs? My kids are at schools 7 miles apart and that's what I do.

KS2 appeals are prejudice appeals, so go on the basis of how much the child needs the space against how much of a problem it would be for the school. I would appeal and focus not on logistics (you'll never win on that -you'll just bore the panel, as they hear it all the time) but on the fact that your DSS needs stability due to his recent circumstances, you need to be able to stop and talk to the teacher after school if necessary, which would be hard if they are at two different schools, etc. He needs to build a local friendship group, alongside DS. That sort of thing.

Okay will definitely look at breakfast/after school clubs.
Just very concerned about how divisive this situation will be. DS(7) is very able academically and in the smaller, high achieving school.
DSS(9) if accepted into the second choice school will struggle to make local friends as they’re all the next village as opposed to few streets away.

Also very concerned that he may not get into that school and next schools available are over 3 miles away.

Just for clarification, was DSS educated outside of his year group at his old school? If he is 9, he should be Y4 or Y5, not Y3. And when you say you believe him to be very behind the curriculum, is that for the Y3 curriculum?

Just checking, as I assume that if you are applying for admission into the 'wrong' school year, there might be additional/different issues.

Also, if he should be in Y4 (or even Y5) but was in Y3, but 'behind' with regards to the Y3 curriculum, then that indicates something is going on here, so EHCP route possibly promising. Though if he should be in Y4, but was for some reason placed in Y3, and is behind with regards to the Y4 curriculum, then that would only be to be expected, as he hasn't been taught it yet, what with being placed in Y3.

Also is your DS in Y3 or Y2? I think it could turn out quite problematic if your DS and DSS ended up in the same school year (let alone in the same class), with DSS being 2 years older but DS doing better at school... If that was the case, I would reconsider if sending DSS to the same school as DS is really the best idea (pragmatics aside).

Are you kinship fostering ,if so does this count as a looked after child

Mary I am pretty sure step kids don't count as kinship fostering.

You can appeal, as it is for a KS2 place, they can take another child even if full.
As PP said, appeals are always about why THIS school is the best fit for your child, not about convenience, or distance or anything else, just why this school.

DSS is just nine should be year 4 for age. DS is 7 year 2. DSS had been in same class for year 3 for 18 months. Last September all but 3 of the year went up to year 4.

So far behind curriculum that he struggles with some year 2 worksheets. Did not understand commas, apostrophes, exclamation marks and full stops.

We believe him to be dyslexic. Both birth parents are.

Struggles with comprehension of what has been read. Left and right. Tying laces. Clothes on back to front. Phonetics.

This school is best fit for a variety of reasons. Outstanding school. Would foster friendships in a situation where he’s an outsider. Cousins and step brother are both in school. Aunt is a TA in what would be his year by age.

On contrast a child with additional needs would need to be put in extra childcare. Excluded from step siblings circle of friends/local friends due to not knowing from school. Disadvantaged from extra curricular activities by being out of district.

I would expect the school to want to tput him in the right year for his age.

Which year did you apply for? You shoudl apply for correct birth year and then be flexible in discusion with school over his needs

Be aware that the school may be reluctant to take on an extra child who takes the class over 30 if that child has additional needs.

And whichever school you get, he needs to be assessed as soon as possible for extra support
Not right, but realistic

Was he perhaps in a mixed y3/4 class previously? Could your dh/p apply for an ehcp on your dss behalf?

We applied for correct birth year. Waiting for SENCO/deputy head of old school to call back so we can look at what to do next.

Have appointment booked for DCD/Dyslexia with GP. We will see I guess.

go ahead and appeal.

Have you spoken to the head of your ds school? The head has some discretion as to whether or not to allow a class to go over the 30 limit, if he/she knows your family and circumstances, she may be willing to be more accommodating

just to illustrate my point above.

We moved and had a place for dd at our local school, but not for ds (older)

I said, that's fine, I will homeschool until a place becomes available, please put him on the waiting list.

24 hours later they phoned back and head had offered to go to 31 in a class to take him.

DSS’s aunt is the TA in what would be his class year 4. Her daughter is also in that class 32 in class.

Headteacher is shared between the two local schools. Waiting on a decision from the second choice school - same headteacher. Then will see about appeal.

If you are able to provide written evidence to back up your need for your DSS to attend the school, I'd say you have at least a reasonable chance of winning an appeal.
Appeals at KS2 are based on the balance of detriment - either to the child or school. As long as the needs of the school do not outweigh his needs in the eye of the panel, you have a good chance. You should find out if they are already over in his year group. Crucially, you need to submit evidence to support your case. In my experience, (not as much as some contributors on here who will give you excellent advice), you have a better case than the majority I see.

hmm, already at 32, they could easily argue the class is full, room too small, not enough of everything to go round, including teacher's time.

There is no legal class size limit in KS2. It's very common to have class sizes of 32 and 34. DD3 is in a very small, very rural school, with only 100 children on roll. Her class this year is 36 children, due to a big group in one year and mixed year classes. Next year will even out as the years juggle through, but it's been a real challenge for the school with an old building, small classrooms, etc.

You will be entitled to free transport if the allocated school is more than 3 miles away by the shortest safe walking route.

As Charmatt says, your will be trying to show that the detriment to your DSS from not attending this school outweighs any problems the school will face in having to cope with an additional pupil. Your case must be about problems he will face, not problems you will have. Transport and childcare issues are generally not relevant for appeals. Remember also that you are appealing for the school you want, not against the school you've been given.

I would disagree a little with Charmatt regarding evidence. It clearly helps if you have a letter from an expert that says your son needs this school but you can still win without any evidence, just by showing that the school is better able to cater for his interests, abilities and/or needs.

swilm - there is no legal limit, but 30 is still the accepted number and above that the school can claim that it can't accommodate.
Of course a lot will depend on the physical space, and also the precedence - how big are the other classes, have they had more than 32 in the past

First question is whether or not the move to your house was agreed with the SS and whether it is official or not. If it is and you can get SS to accept he needs to be in school because he is so far behind, then it gives you a reasonably good case to go to appeal with.
Also assuming that the child was previously somewhere not immediately adjacent to your home, then the LA has a responsibility to find a school place. You need to push the LA as to whether in the circumstances they would agree to the pupil being admitted to the local school under a fair access protocol. Do not say you are home educating because that is just an excuse for the LA not to do anything. He is out of schooling, has been out of schooling for a month, at home all day and a child with significant SS involvement.
I think there is also a question about what has been going on at his previous school. He should be in the appropriate age group, not have been kept down unless this was agreed with the LA / parents. It would be useful to ask SS if they know what happened over this because again at appeal it is another point that this child has been severely disadvantaged in the past and deserves to be treated with some respect. Most panel members are parents and will give every consideration to children who can be shown to have been given a bad deal in the past.

I agree with admission. Obviously, a lot will depend on the strength of the school's case not to admit (and the fact the class is already at 32 doesn't help here) but there are several aspects to your appeal that I think most panels would look at with concern and empathy.