Neighbour offered place, we’re closer!

[behindthescenes]

Our DD hasn’t been offered a place at the junior school we applied to. Our neighbours who are one house further away from the school have. They are good friends and we’ve talked openly so we’re sure there aren’t any reasons for them to come above us on the admissions criteria (SEND, looked after, siblings come above distance and then it is simply done on ‘as the crow flies’). We are a bit mystified.

Is there any way of finding out if there’s been an administrative error? We don’t know anyone else nearby who has applied (there’s only one separate junior school and most go to other through infants-junior primaries) so can’t judge where we are in relation to the edge of the catchment although we knew from previous years we were likely to be on the edge or just beyond.

Does anyone have any advice on what we can do? I’m assuming that the council admissions people won’t be receptive to me ringing up and saying “but my neighbour says she got in...”

I'm pretty sure that you'd have grounds to appeal in these circumstances. But be aware that, if you appeal and get offered a place, they won't move any child out, just squeeze yours in, so you could rnd up with your child in a class with higher numbers than you'd like.

I imagine your neighbour would have the same postcode as you? would they just judge it from centre of postcode, rather than look at actual house numbers, like looking on a google map, the arrow is always just centre of postcode.

Are you sure it's as the crow flies? Where I live I can see the grounds of ds's previous primary. However. My neighbours don't get places now as they do it by driving distance and due to an unfortunately (relatively newly) positioned no right turn sign those further away but living other side of turning get in. Bloody stupid.

Is there a different route they can go to the school from you? I ask because someone who is in the next street to us which on the “as the crow flies” approach is further away than us. However, here it is measured by the walking distance on official footpaths or pavements and they were actually a couple of metres closer because they could cut through to the main road via a footpath whereas we had to wind round on the road. Therefore, they were ahead of us on the waiting list.

look at the school website, somewhere it should say how they calculate distance. Is it walking door to door (where an alley way or short cut can be used) or as the crow flies, if so, from where to where, eg front door of the school to your front door, or from nearest gate onto school grounds.

They are very specific about the measurement, as in some places it comes down to the last metre.

If non of those aply, then contact the council as there has been a mistake

I believe it is normally measured in a straight line. You also need to find out which point in the school it is measured from. We assumed it was our main school gate, but it was actually in the middle of a room, as prior to building works that was the main entrance.

Is it definitely done as the crow flies? Are you certain which point of the school and which point if your property they use? It should all be on your councils website somewhere.
Ours use walking distance so include roads and official footpaths

I’d definitely ring and say your neighbour got in and lives further away. That would highlight to them that there has possibly been a mistake differentiating you from all the people ringing in annoyed that they didn’t get the place they wanted. But it may be worth checking on the map that “as the crow flies” she actually lives further away though. Sometimes the way roads bend and twist although she may be further down the street from the school than you she may be closer drawing a straight line from the school to her house than you if you see what I mean.

Thanks everyone. Yes, am confident it’s as the crow flies and we’re closer. It’s the sort of crazily over-subscribed school where they give talks on the admissions criteria and people pore over maps and we’re one house closer on a road pretty much in a straight line from the school.

Any advice on how to approach the council about it? I’m worried that if I ring up tomorrow and say “but my neighbour says she got in” they’ll just dismiss and assume I must not be aware of a reason that applies to their application. Also, we actually live in a different London borough from the one the school is in so applied through our council to the school in the other council. So do I ring our council or the council that covers the school?

Aargh! What a pain!

I believe it is normally measured in a straight line.

no, it varies from council to council.

ring your council, and say there has been an admissions mistake, and who shoudl you speak to. Ask to file an official complaint that there has been a mistake

Good luck OP. I’m curious as to how this pans out.

I'd absolutely mention that your neighbour further away got in and that you know no special circumstances are involved. It's the clearest indication you can give them that there's been a problem! I rang up saying just this a few years ago. It turns out they'd forgotten to include sibling priority for us. We had a place in our preferred school within 24 hours, as the error was so glaring on their part that there was clearly no point them drawing it out via appeal. Though having said that, I was told on here at the time that such a speedy resolution was highly unusual!

I would most definitely mention about the neighbour. There is always room for error, so best you point it out and might open a spot for you or at least put you first on the waiting list. Mistakes have definitely been made with admissions, so better to say something. The worst that can happen is nothing changes and the best scenario they realise the mistake and your dc gets a spot.

Mamabear if they have made an error that deprives the ops child of a place that was rightfully theirs, the council have a duty to sort it out, even if it breaches infant class size limits. An error in procedure js one of the few ways you can win a reception appeal, so it's not good advice to suggest 'oh well you might at least be put first on the waiting list'. If op's child should have got a place, then she shouldn't accept just being bumped up the waiting list!

It is worth querying. Our local authority messed up with its distance calculations for secondary places and 20 children are now getting places:
www.somersetlive.co.uk/in-your-area/council-apologises-after-pupils-wrongly-1425834

Well I emailed the school directly as had no luck getting through to the council and got a reply saying that they were aware there had been some unexpected outcomes and were contacting the local authority to investigate so looks as if they are aware of some sort of error. They say they should be in a position to let us know more on Thursday. Fingers crossed and thank you for all advice!

That sounds hopefully ...almost.

I like their use of the term 'unexpected outcomes' I bet that wasn't the term they were using around the office.

Good luck.

If it's happened to a lot of applicants, they may admit you all as a bulge class. Good luck!

still start the appeals procedure though. Do not rely on the school saying there has been an error.

I’ve very heard from quite a few people locally now and it seems that the local authority have completely messed up the offers. Lots for families who are very close haven’t hadn’t offers while people mich further away have. We’ve all had emails from the school saying they’re investigating, but does anyone know what is likely to happen in this situation? What will they do if they given offers to the wrong 90 children?!

You and neighbour probably simply had exactly the same criteria. And had to compete lottery style.

Surely catchment is catchment whether you are 1m from the school or 1000m from the school (whatever that catchment is set at). So if all other criteria is the same and it’s oversubscribed, you are no more or less likely than the 1000m away person to get the place.

That's actually incorrect @Justanotherzombie (even though it makes some sense).
A friend of mine didn't get her catchment school on Monday. Called the council who said they had got her house coordinates incorrect and as such wrongly not allocated her child a place. Which they now have. So definitely worth making that contact OP. Good luck!

Justanotherzombie that would indeed make much more sense but no that isn't how it works. Places in each admissions category are allocated by increasing distance from school. So how close you are to the school matters enormously, sometimes to 0.01 of a mile!