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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

school swimming lessons

28 replies

teapot97 · 25/03/2018 14:19

I'm doing some research about opinions on schools swimming lessons for children in England. If you have a minute please could you answer the questions in this survey.

www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/MZJ9CKQ

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Florabella · 25/03/2018 16:04

I've done it. School swimming lessons make me so cross! They were pointless, yet all parents have to pay for them even if you are already paying for private lessons. Grrr

Original poster

teapot97 · 25/03/2018 16:37

Thankyou! feel free to share the link with anyone you think may be interested. Swimming is so important but there needs to be a rethink in how we approach it.

OP posts:

PlayingForKittens · 25/03/2018 16:44

Done. My school is pretty good, small school, lessons with a decent teacher and they get 2 full school years of swimming (year 4 and 5) and we don't get asked to pay a penny. But I know this isn't always the case. My oldest only ever had school lessons and is ok at swimming. The others get private too and the standard seems similar.

xyzandabc · 25/03/2018 16:47

Done, but it only lets you answer for 1 child. I have 3.

For our school swimming parents only pay for the coach so I think it's about £12 for half a term. They only do half a term per year from year 3 upwards. It may have some benefit for the non or almost non swimmers but for those that can swim it's a waste of time and resources.

Mine have all had weekly lessons at the local pool since their 4th birthday so can swim. To take a whole morning out of class to swim perhaps 4 or 5 lengths just isn't worth it. The 1st week each year, they just do a swimming test so they can group them by ability for the subsequent weeks. So a whole morning out of class to swim 2 widths. I'm glad they only have to do it for 6 weeks.

I'd say concentrate on the non swimmers and keep the rest at school perhaps doing PE instead.

frogsoup · 25/03/2018 16:49

It's an important subject but you need to proofread and roadtest your survey!!!

It's receive not recieve.
The last question makes no sense - why what?
There's no indication of which child you choose if you have more than one, and whether the hours are cumulative over ?a year ?a lifetime.
Am I missing something?? there are no actual questions about whether you think school swimming lessons are any good or not?!

If you are a student, you really need your supervisor or teacher to look over this. If not, crikey...

TeenTimesTwo · 25/03/2018 19:50

You know MN will be biased towards having had private swimming lessons, don't you?

grasspigeons · 25/03/2018 20:57

I filled out your questionnaire
I have paid for private lessons
I accompany the school swimming - for some of the children I take swimming it is the only chance they get to go swimming - id have answered differently on their behalf

TeenTimesTwo · 25/03/2018 21:05

I used to accompany lessons too.

One year at the start one child wouldn't even walk across the learner pool (well in depth) without hanging on to the edge. 6 weeks later still couldn't actually swim but was trying and way more confident.

School swimming lessons can make a big difference.

Origamoo · 25/03/2018 21:10

I didn’t think anyone should be paying for school swimming? It’s part of the national curriculum. Paying doesn’t sound right

TeenTimesTwo · 25/03/2018 21:13

Often parents are asked to cover the cost of transport to the pool.
(Luckily our school walked which was extra good exercise!)

shouldwestayorshouldwego · 25/03/2018 21:17

At my dc's school only those in top juniors who can't swim 25m have lessons. This suits me fine. We wanted our dc to swim early and have had the money to pay for that. They have had the lessons which suited them. Now only those who still can't swim 25m have lessons and they have intensive lessons. Those who can swim have fun projects to do at school.

One of mine did have school swimming lessons but as she could already swim she was in a fairly large group who just swam around rather than building on skills as she did in private lessons. She said they were a waste of time. Also it takes about 2hrs by the time they get the coach, get changed, swim, get changed, get back to school.

BackforGood · 25/03/2018 21:29

Sounds like a really sensible way of working it out, Shouldwe. How do they ensure both the swimmers and those who are at school, have a teacher ?

BackforGood · 25/03/2018 21:36

I agree with so many other posters though - MN is not going to give you a full representation across the whole spectrum of dc.
In the first school I taught at, I used to take the children swimming when they were 7. For a good 75% of the children each year, it was the first time they had ever been to a swimming baths. I used to have to teach them what it was going to be like / what to do about getting changed / about putting their face in water / etc.,etc before we started. It was unusual to have more than one child in each class who could swim at all.
It was a very different scenario from when my own dc went (and what my answers were on the survey).

NotCitrus · 25/03/2018 21:36

My ds was asked to leave private lessons as he had meltdowns (pre ASD diagnosis) when the teachers thought throwing water in the kids' faces without warning was a good idea.

He had a year of school lessons (I think 30 min x 25 or so) but he refused to engage most of the time as the water was cold. On the plus side, he now knows he can't swim and it isn't as easy as it looks, so is very careful around water and would scream blue murder if he fell in any.

The pool in walking distance was all booked up so they had to use the school minibuses (2 for a class of 30, plus an extra couple staff in a car).

RoseAndRose · 25/03/2018 21:42

I think the value of school swimming lessons is for those DC whose families do nit take them swimming.

Those who can swim learn very little in school, except perhaps in proper club type coaching that is found in some secondaries (usually those which have a pool on site)

shouldwestayorshouldwego · 25/03/2018 22:20

Backforgood usually the HT takes the ones who stay behind, but much of it is self-directed so TA can supervise and is a nice break from SATs. Sometimes they go and help in other classes - e.g. reading with reception etc.

LadyLapsang · 25/03/2018 22:34

OP, what is the purpose of your survey? All children who are able should learn to swim in primary school - it is a basic skill and could save their life.

MinnieMousse · 25/03/2018 22:43

I'm a teacher. There is no point coming at this from the point of view of parents who pay for their children to have private swimming lessons. I teach in a deprived area. Very few of the children (maybe 5 out of a class of 30) have had swimming lessons before. For many, this will be their only opportunity to learn any basic swimming skills.

I'd say concentrate on the non swimmers and keep the rest at school perhaps doing PE instead.

How do you decide who goes? Who is available to teach PE at school as well as take the children swimming (you need a qualified teacher for both, and two adults to accompany the children swimming)?

Some people may not think their kids benefit from school swimming lessons, but even if they can swim it doesn't harm them to get some extra practice and for other children it's their only opportunity to learn a life-saving skill.

sirfredfredgeorge · 25/03/2018 23:14

How do they ensure both the swimmers and those who are at school, have a teacher ?

For the same reason it's cheaper to hire the pool for one class, it also doesn't require any more teachers - instead of teaching six classes each with 30 in the pool with a teacher - you take 5 kids out of the 6 classes, so it's still 30 kids having a swimming lesson, and the other 150 are still at school still with 5 teachers.

It obviously has little advantage and not the same cost savings in tiny schools where you just end up taking 5 kids swimming. However the ratios may still make it cheaper if you can have those 5 taught by a single coach, with the teacher looking after the normal 25. As many pools will want three or four coaches in a group of 30 depending on their skill levels.

BackforGood · 25/03/2018 23:17

Minnie, a pp has already said how they manage it in their school. The HT takes half the class. The focus is then on all the children from the year who haven't had the opportunity.

How do you decide who goes?

Well, when I was a child you got a free pass if you could swim 25m. The National Curriculum also says 'should be able to swim 25m', so I'd have thought proof of that ability (certificate, or badge for most, demonstration at first lesson if that isn't available for those who can't produce them).

Some people may not think their kids benefit from school swimming lessons, but even if they can swim it doesn't harm them to get some extra practice
No, tbf, most school swimming lessons are a complete waste of time for competent swimmers. (I'm agreeing with you are a necessity for those children who haven't had the opportunity though, so that's why I think the whole system would benefit from being looked at).

OP, what is the purpose of your survey? All children who are able should learn to swim in primary school - it is a basic skill and could save their life. I think the point is that school swimming lessons don't usually improve the swimming of children who are already competent swimmers. It does seem sensible, to do that same as you do with other subjects (where the staffing is possible, and I realise it isn't always), that is, give the extra input in a smaller group of those who need support to get up to a basic level.

MinnieMousse · 25/03/2018 23:31

Even the competent swimmers in my classes would have been very annoyed to stay behind with the HT instead of going swimming! And how would you prove which children could already swim 25 metres?
Do they have to bring in a certificate? (Not sure where I put my kids swimming certificates).

Perhaps the issue is more with where the swimming classes take place? At the pool we go to, the children are divided into 3 ability groups and all seem to get a decent lesson pitched at their level.

BackforGood · 25/03/2018 23:34

Answered that in my prev post......

Yes, virtually all swimming lessons I've seen and taught are split into 3 groups. Not all with qualified swimming teacher though - usually at least one is with a member of school staff who usually doesn't know the first thing about how to teach swimming or music, or French (and why should they ? )

frogsoup · 25/03/2018 23:43

"Some people may not think their kids benefit from school swimming lessons, but even if they can swim it doesn't harm them to get some extra practice
No, tbf, most school swimming lessons are a complete waste of time for competent swimmers. "

Amen to this. I find it hard to express just how appallingly bad the kids' school swimming lessons are. It's crowd containment at best. The ratios are such that they really do nothing. DS got his 500m badge in private lessons and that same term got a certificate from his school lessons congratulating him on being able to 'enter the water safely' and 'travel 5 metres'

TeenTimesTwo · 26/03/2018 08:06

At DDs primary about 2/3rds are effectively 'non swimmers' when they have lessons in ~y4.

The 1/3rd that can swim go in the big pool and do lengths and work on style.

The 2/3rds that can't swim stay in the trainer pool with 2 teachers and learn to float, kick, face in water, and start on strokes etc. Usually by the end the better half of those have also graduated to the main pool.

For DD it was great. There was finally something she could do better than most of the class. It was massive for her self esteem to be one of the best for a change. It would have been really sad to have been excluded because she was too good.

grasspigeons · 26/03/2018 09:18

but how many of us who paid for swimming lessons, wouldn't have done so, if school swimming had been 'better' I think half the reason school swimming is so poor is lots of parents pay their way out of the issue.

When I was at school we did a weekly session for the whole 4 years of junior school, and there were lots of swim teachers so it was by ability group.

My children get 1 term in year 2 and 1 term in year 4 and there are only 'can swim' and 'cant swim' groups.

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