Exactly how is authorised lateness policed?

[venys]

Hello, since it's the weekend I thought I would ask here. I have three children, one SN who goes to a school 2 miles away, one reception age child who attends then local school and one toddler. The eldest gets school transport - he is the last in the borough to be picked up. I am at the mercy of traffic and randomly if any child is added to the bus during the school year. So I have no control as to what time he is picked up. My middle child 's school is understanding and I made it known at application time we are likely to be late to school. I have not sent an official letter to the school however outlining our predicament. I can not use breakfast clubs due to me having to be home for my eldest. So we have received a letter saying how many times we have been late and under "U" it is marked as 0. The letter threatens court action if lateness is persistent. Just wondering if anyone knows how far the automation goes on this process and how would I avoid taken to court/fined? TIA.

To my knowledge (but I'm by no means an expert like attendance managers) there is a difference between being getting an L and getting a U.
One is late but before the registers close (L)
The other is when the child is so late it is counted as missing a morning session (U).

As a class teacher and form tutor I only ever give Ls. If a child is so late they warrant a U then they are usually having to sign in at reception part way through the morning session.

I have flagged lateness as a concern for a student in the past but we are talking about being repeatedly late 3-4 mornings a week and the reason is always 'traffic'. It is persistent. I follow our school's lateness policy with them. If there were extenuating circumstances then we would be told.

Isn't this same as a letter parents with children with chronic illness receive? We received the threatening letter(automated), but with notes saying not to worry.
If this is the case, it's just formal letter to show school is doing something against poor attendance/lateness, and as long as the parents and school have mutual understanding about the issue, you don't need to worry about it.

If you are worried, you need to go into school and speak to someone in charge of attendance.

It will probably be an automated message however it would be sensible to go into school and talk to the head teacher and explain again your predicament.
I am a little surprised that the pick up for elder son is so near to the time when they would normally be in school, so I would also try writing to the transport department who are organising transport and ask whether the collection time can be 5 or 10 minutes earlier.

I am a school Secretary. We monitor it in the office and send letters to repeat offenders. We also flag pesistent lateness to the Headteacher

Thanks for your answers. There is no way we can change pick up time (it's two different schools and lots of variables). My question is WHO decides to prosecute? Is it automated or is it at the discretion of the school? I don't trust the LA to write a report to send to courts that excludes authorised lateness!!

I really think you should speak to someone at school.

Would any of your neighbours/DC’s classmates be able to help with your morning school run? In exchange for a different favour?

Yeah I might speak to the school and see if they can shed any light on the process. Tried having a neighbour share the school runs but it didn't work out - I will never be sure of the real reason. It's such a struggle with a SEN child because it affects much more than dealing with their condition (I think that's the easiest bit) - the support bit is hopeless.

OK found out prosecution is at schools discretion but we may need to chat come September when middle is in Year 1. Things aren't going to change really so not sure what I can do. Take them all out of school now ? I am fed up with it all as the toddler is the biggest pain who wants to walk. Often seen kicking and screaming and carrying on as I have to carry her. The kids want to stay in school though :/

Would you be able to send DC2 in a taxi to school? If you get PIP or benefits (sorry, am not an expert) for eldest, could some money go on either taxi or perhaps morning home help/childcare to wait with eldest and toddler at home for the transport, or a childminder to collect D.C. from yours and deliver to school? I assume there’s no chance of DH/DP changing hours or dropping at breakfast club?

Sorry - bet you’ve thought all this through but just in case...?

Yeah thought of that and none of.it feasible or available.OH does shift work and has to commute an hour each way so he can't do drop offs or pickups as a rule. Really stuck between rock and hard place . My.only.other vague option would be go to the only school that could have them both, but it.takes time to.get them in (and we have missed cutoff), the school is super unorganised,.not easy to.get.to or park..So I am erring on saying no to that. I think that would be jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire. I am sure I will think of something (or just pay the fine - why not? ).

Well the school have said that they are not prosecuting yet, so no fine to worry about just at the moment. Whether that changes in Yr1 is unknown at the moment, I am wondering why they mentioned that timescale. Perhaps there is a change in the regulations that the school knows about, did they give you a clue?

How far away is DC2's school from you? If your DC1 lives closest to the school I can see why they pick him up last (inconvenient as it is for you) but how far away is the other school that the eldest DC can make it in time and the other is late? Are they in the same Council area?

If you have Parent Partnership (may be called something different in your area but have a look on the Council website, there may be a link to your local one) they can be helpful, you could outline the problem to them and see if there is anything they can suggest. Does DC2's school have a pastoral worker?

I need to call PP today about another issue with DC1 so thanks ,will bring it up with them. For DC1 he is the closest of all the SN kids on the bus, he is dropped into the grounds (doesn't have to find a park!), and his start time is 5 minutes later than DC2. Even if he is late, they couldn't possibly fine us as it is the LAs responsibility. Yes DC2s school has a lovely pastoral worker. But I guess she can only do so much? They mentioned Year 1 timescale because they have important lessons first thing. But surely they can start them a bit later (I am no teacher though and not sure it's feasible) i think my only option is wait and see if it becomes an issue though :/

There must be something they can do as my son was given permission to go into his secondary school an hour late for one week & no lates were recorded at all.

How late are you in dropping off middle dc?

If the bus is running to schedule, and dc1 is picked up at allocated pick-up time can you get dc2 to school at the correct time?

If dc1 is not being picked up at allocated pick up time, and This in turn means that dc2 is late. LA duty is to dc1. However if dc2 is not getting to School on time and is at a closer school. Then it is fair to say dc1 is not actually getting to school on time either.

If transport can not get to you at allocated pick-up time then they need to adjust the timings of their route.

You need to be talking to SEN transport.

They have a duty to turn up on time, to enable dc1 to get to school in good time.
If they are late, (I gave them 4-5mins, as any later means other dc would have been late for School). phone transport and complain. (Leave message if need be.) repeat every single time they do not arrive to collect dc1 at allocated time.

Exceptions can be made if dc1 is late for School, as that is due to LA transport not turning up on time. They won't be made for dc2, your priority is to get dc2 to school on time.

I really don't think it's feasible to complain about SEN transport. They are actually very good and 99% of the time leave the depot on time. The route is a long one and picks up physically disabled children as well. Trying to get these kids out the door is very difficult, not to mention that they have long days stuck in transport to and from school. Much much longer than your average primary school child. Then anything can happen to the traffic..and then sometime during the year they might add another child, that the parent has had to fight tooth and nail for. Transport is not late all the time - actually if someone is sick this is better for us!! Anyways, I think I am going to get up earlier so that it isn't such a mad scramble and we are all waiting outside when the bus comes. The kids can be a right PITA though getting them out in time, but isn't that most families?

I admire your positive attitude, OP. Hope it works out for you.

Thanks :).