fucking HOMEWORK. Really cross.

[k2p2k2tog]

Our school has apparently been consulting stakeholders about homework. Who the fuck they have actually consulted I have no idea because nobody admits to being asked.

Anyway. Upshot of this consultation is that they have replaced the traditional spelling words/sentences/activities, maths and reading with a Homework Menu.

This menu contains gems such as "Ask each person in the family to sing their favourite song. Each person has to write down why it is their favourite" and "Plan a menu for a healthy family meal. Make a shopping list. Each person has to prepare a part of the meal".

WIBU unreasonable to point out that DH and I have finished our education and our two older children are busy doing their own homework, instead of twatting around singing songs and cooking meals?

Fucks sake.

When we lived in the U.K. our D.C. had spellings to memorise, maths and reading to do every day, and a grid of homework from which to pick a number of activities. There was also a ‘fun’ project to do once a term.

Then we moved to the USA and our children were given two hours of homework to do every evening, plus reading and online math and spelling tests. They are also expected to study for regular tests (and this is primary school). This is on top of a much longer school day.

It was a bit of a shock to the system.

In the end of the day, whatever we privately think about the homework we support the school and make sure it gets done.

I'd be tempted to write notes sating things like, "I find it insulting that you are asking a family where several members are deaf what their favorite song is"

"We do not plan menus or cook as a family, we have someone being fed via a peg tube" Alternatively, "The nanny plans the children's food, we are either served by the butler or eat out, we never eat with the children"

We're in Scotland and I love the home work menu.

Getting a specific task on Monday for that Friday can be tricky if you have after school activities and/or parents work and/or child is just too tired by the time you get home. With menu we can plan ahead.

Re the model making, the benefit I see is in planning a project. It can truly parallel a project management approach and teach valuable life skills. DS needs to break it down into stages. First decide what you're going to do that will meet the brief, how are you going to do it? What materials do you need? Where are you going to get them and when? If the first solution doesn't work what are the alternatives? Have you left yourself enough time in case some bits take longer to do than you thought they would. You might need to simplify some bits that you'd planned if you are running short of time. Recognize when you need a bit of help.

It's not about the model. It's about how you make the model.

Also with homework menu, if we have a mad busy week we'll learn a poem. We can do that on the bus/in the car/walking along the road.

If Ds is knackered we'll do "visit this website and try some number challenges" no evidence required.

Sarahj: It is not madness to understand scale! It is Maths! The homework was based on s trip they had done so very good in my view. You did not have to go. Why would you think you did? You are not doing the homework are you? They were not asking for an architects’ model. I really fail to see why posters don’t understand the value of some homework.

I do know there have been studies that show primary homework does not help but then we wonder why the more engaged families have children that do better than others. Why do prep schools set homework? Why are there large numbers of privately educated children in the universities? They will all have done homework from a young age.

The families who are in a desperate position have children who get PP and it is this funding that should make a difference.

Many areas do have a library that is open on a Saturday morning. Why do you need to photocopy anything? The child could make a few notes! Mine managed this in the days before this became a lost skill. In fact it is a hugely valuable skill so why not encourage it?

I despair at the anger shown here.

I have to agree on Bubbles with scaled model. It would be very exciting homework for my ds, no doubt. Finding out measurement. Scaling it down. Planning how to make it. Thinking about how to achieve his intentions. What can he use. Constructing it. All very worthwhile.

I have huge issues with primary homework. Not least because DS has SN and struggles with the cross over between home and school. Plus the homework unlike his classwork is not differentiated so he often plain doesn't understand it.

At his old school we had a project a week...with prizes...I flat out stopped participating when the winning suspension bridge was made out of cake! Sodding cake! As if a 7 year old had been anywhere near It!

At his current school we get several pieces a week because "he needs to get used to it for secondary". I make sure it's done but I refuse to offer shed loads of support, he does what he's capable of. After all nobody needs to see what I would write on the 100 word challenge.

The funny thing though is that DS1 is already at Secondary and quite frankly homework is miles less work for me. He goes to a homework club in the library after school where he has access to computers, books, resources and teachers are on hand to support if needed. The work also consolidates what they've been learning in class so it's relevant. All I get to do is a quick check and to see the excellent grades.

Also in Scotland. Moved here a few years ago and I have been really disappointed with the quality of the education. This homework stuff is ridiculous.

DD, who is almost 8 came home with spelling yesterday, some of which were:

Eat
Home
Cake

I repeat, she is almost 8. It's ludicrous. Even she was like . I just try to sell her on it by saying it's about more than knowing how to spell the word, it's about letter formation etc. I want to be supportive. But her teacher tells me she needs to e challenged then this is what we waste time on at night.

Oh I love the idea of subverting the homework menu.

Make a replacement, as similar to the school one as possible, only fill it in with all the activities you actually do, including the clubs eg swimming of whatever.

Send it back all ticked off, and wait.

Or, send back a letter:

thanks you for the new homework menu, it is an interesting idea, I was under the impression taht it had been shown that homework at primary level doesn't improve results, other than reading, times tables and spellings. I will continue with those, and eagerly await a link to the evidence that shows that my husband and I singing a song and writing about it will improve the learning outcomes for my son.
Thank you

(btw, not sure that spellings are on the list, but I don't mind doing those)

Most parents have to put in more effort wth special needs children though, don’t they? I cannot understand why doing something within your child is so onerous and such a waste of your time. No parent should do the homework and prizes are very silly. Parents should guide and advise and facilitate. No more.

colours I fought with ds over home work all through primary, that all stopped from day one in secondary.
why? because the school makes them accountable. Don't do it, you get a behaviour mark, the work follows on from the classwork and it is properly marked and returned.

I never had to interfere.

For what it is worth I am an ex teacher and a governor, and I either cheat with homework (dd2s book gets signed every day whether she has read or not, she reads plenty, no reason for her to stay in a break because I haven't signed a piece of paper. Or we find easy/cheating versions.
eg - make a new book cover for your favourite book - over the christmas holidays, when we were away from 26th to the day school went back.
hmm, she read a book about a boy and a dog recently, so took a photo of ds and our dog and printed it off, and wrote the name of the book at the top. Took about 10 minutes, the other kids said she had cheated. Teacher didn't care.

I do have to put in lots of extra effort due to his SN.

Doing things with him can be onerous actually. I certainly don't need the added stress of an incomplete worksheet or a task he can't recall the verbal instructions for. Or a sheet of fractions his table haven't started working on in class yet. Or an extra meltdown because the wretched homework app won't run again and teacher says the activity 'must' be done.

I have explained before that if they really want it done the only option on some nights is for me to virtually do it for him. So sometimes it's not done. I'm an adult whose creative writing is pretty good actually and I had absolutely no clue what to suggest for his last 100 word challenge. Absolute codswallop...incidently we'd all be over the moon if he wrote 100 words at all let alone from vague inference!

DS1 also has SN. But the secondary homework has a point. Talk about a weight off all our shoulders.

I'm a teacher and homework is always a nightmare. It's impossible to please everyone. Personally I don't agree with homework in infant classes but there is so much parental pressure to set homework. I think the school should decide and parents should just accept what they are asked to do. I'm pretty certain that mean no homework for most of primary!

In ks1 I would much prefer a

"This week we have been learning x, y and z. Talk to you child about their history project."

Then some prompt questions to help for dc who tell us nothing.

Making projects make me grumpy as there's always the artistic parent whose dc never touched the project but gets full marks or a certificate because their parent did all the work (fail to believe a 5yo used a jigsaw to cut wood to make a puzzle and heat branded the school logo on it 🙄).

Why do prep schools set homework? Why are there large numbers of privately educated children in the universities? They will all have done homework from a young age.

Are you seriously trying to say that prep school kids go to the best universities in higher numbers because they get more junk-modeling-type homework tasks?

I know a couple of people whose kids go to prep schools. They do more homework than in the average state school, but it is mostly academically rigorous homework with a point and purpose (a page of fractions, or a reading comprehension task or a composition), not cutting-and-sticking. Homework that is focused and is about practicing academic content learned in class is not the homework that is being complained about on this thread.

I really fail to see why posters don’t understand the value of some homework.

Very few people here are against all homework. What people are overwhelmingly saying is that homework should be things like times tables, writing practice, reading and so on, not making things out of cornflake packets. Most of us do all kinds of fun things with our children, but we'd rather do them in our own time and at our own pace, and not as a form of mandatory school-enforced "fun" that has to be completed by a deadline, which takes any fun out of it. The kind of parents who don't interact with their children are the ones who won't do the crafty homework tasks anyway.

Sarahjconnor, good for you!

I'm getting the impression that homework is something that parents are expected to be very involved in, along with their child.
That certainly wasn't the case when I was a child, or a parent (I'm now a gran).
Listening to reading or occasional help from parents if the child is stuck, ok, but surely the homework should be something the child does, not the parents

but surely the homework should be something the child does, not the parents

Yes, but sadly (some) parents now expect the school to provide homework to young children who are able to work independently on any task that has any use to them. So schools to meet the parental demands either give pointless homework (undifferentiated worksheets) or they give this sort of menu homework (done by those who want homework and ignored by others).

Of the two, the menu homework is much more likely to not be a waste as the things that are actually recognised to give kids an advantage is talking to an adult and doing things with them.

I do know there have been studies that show primary homework does not help but then we wonder why the more engaged families have children that do better than others.

because the more engaged families have been engaged since the child was born and continue to be engaged all through school.
The single most important factor for school success is that the parents are supportive.

Until you have worked alongside families that are just not that fussed about school and education, it can be hard to understand the difference. These are some of the things that engaged families do, that may not happen in other familes:
-read to their child, right up until they are 9/10
-play board games/card games
-sing nursery rhymes
-talk, use new vocab, model discussion, points of view
-with pre-schoolers - count and point out letters and words and numbers in their environment
-build puzzles
-cook with their kids, getting them to weigh and measure stuff
-take them to places eg zoo and talk about what they are seeing and learn new stuff together

and so on. Engaged parents do support school and homework, but that is not the primary reason that engaged parents have more successful kids.

A huge amount of homework is pointless - make a poster, build a model, colour a picture, and don't get me started on researching somthing on the internet (incredibly complex set of skills required, and not taught to the kids)
The issue to me is always is this homework task more valuable than what they would be doing instead? and play in this context is often more valuable

What is the primary reason engaged parents have more successful children then? Much support is aimed at trying to get parents more engaged, especially the disengaged. We know that children are behind by the age of 3 and many never catch up. They are not from the homes of engaged parents. We have PP funding for disadvantaged children. We know some of these parents will not do half the things mentioned above. We know lots of children are plonked down at a tablet and have no conversation with an adult at all. Their speech is markedly worse at 5 than many other children who have been spoken to.

I did not suggest that prep school children are making models and that helps with university. However, parents who are paying are usually keen for children to learn and do what the school ask of them. When preparing for CE, and the next school is on the line, you bet they get lots of prep. Lots of people on these threads continually bemoan the fact that some universities are half full of children from private schools but no-one ever stops to wonder why. It is not just money that brings success, it is engagement and high expectations.

There have been lots of people on this thread just wanting their chidren to do worksheets while they get on with something else. They do not mention the value of conversation, reading to the children, taking time to explain something, going to the library etc. Homework, apparently, should be the equivalent to baby sitting the child with a tablet. Do it on their own without parental involvement.

However, all homework should be doable or partly doable by the child with some guidance. If it is not, then tell the teacher. However, do not exclude the odd piece of art or making a model which some children really enjoy and get a lot of value from. My DH discovered he wanted to be an Engineer through model making at a young age. We need to encourage these skills, not totally dismiss them as being worthless (but no prizes please).

We are in Scotland near Stirling and our school has done this. Load of crap. We do these things on a day to day basis anyway and I don’t need to write the procedures down for the teacher to prove it. We just don’t fill in the book. No proof required.

What is the primary reason engaged parents have more successful children then?

Er that was th ewhole point of my post! Their children are successful becuase they are engaged.

The whole point is that engaged parents don't need this kind of homework sheets to get more engaged, they are already engaged, and parents who are not engaged are not going to suddenly get engaged because of a homework sheet.

Your first post suggests that homework is part of the engagement, no, I disagree, homework is at primary level mostly not worth the paper it is written on. That has been proved by studies.

Engagement is the key, not homework. I used to spend several hours on a Saturday getting ds to do his homework in year 5. In the end I told school I was not going to supervise it, and if they wnated him to do it, then make him accountable at school, eg miss lunchtime if not done.

Once that was out of the way, instead of spending 3 hours nagging on a Saturday, we could spend 3 hours being a family, going out, or playing football, or cooking together, or..... Which is going to benefit more, 3 hours of positive engagement or 3 hours of homework nagging.

The problem people have with homework is that it is not, for the most part, positive engagement.
And no, the parents don't want to shove a worksheet while they do somethign else, they want them to do academic homework (like your prep school kids) which is at the child's level, so it can be done by the child, NOT by the parent.

As to how you get disengaged parents to engage, that is another matter, and certainly isn't solved by more homework.

" However, do not exclude the odd piece of art or making a model which some children really enjoy and get a lot of value from."

The problem is that some people are finding that their kids are CONSTANTLY being sent home homework that has no academic point or purpose.

"However, parents who are paying are usually keen for children to learn and do what the school ask of them. "

Sure. Because what prep schools are asking children to do is usually not junk modeling.

I disagree, Kokeshi. My ds's school constantly set homework which may look like they have no academic point or purpose. But it's up to you how you use the opportunity. I think I am quite engaged parents, but I do find some topics interesting and never thought about it. I don't do homework for him. But will help him research. And there are always something your child get out from it, if your child put effort into it.

Most engaged parents I know were engaged with the homework too not swearing about it!