Yr3 critical for girls and sport

[Lifechallenges]

I've been reading up a lot recently about girls and sport and how year three is a vital year and age for girls engagement that lasts a lifetime or not. I am in despair about how awful our school provision is for girls and the casual acceptance that girls opting out of sport is fine.
I would honestly go to a local private school if I could afford it to overcome this for my DD.
Has anyone challnenged a school on this??
We are a large school with dedicated PE staff yet sport is still v boys focused ... and pondering emailing governors?

"no effort is made to challenge the girls perception that sport is not for them"

How... what would a "challenge" look like?

In any other area such as maths and reading, expectations for boys and girls are othe same. Or eg. Swim lessons
The same should do for school sports and physical literacy and encouraging girls to have a go and prove to themselves they can do it?
If anyone watched No More Boys and Girls there was interesting stuff in there on the same theme... the girls underestimated their ability, when physically they can compete on an equal level at that age if they are encourage to.
It becomes a self fulfilling prophesy otherwise.

I agree with the OP. Our kids do about 2 X 1hr PE session per week and there is 1 after schools activity club per week. It's crap.
We take our children to 2 sports clubs and cycle, run etc at weekends but many children have patents who can't or don't run them around.
The school has banned the kids doing gymnastics at break time because it is deemed too dangerous whilst DC2 who is only 5 comes home about once a week with an injury slip saying he has been hut in the head by a stray football when he wasn't even playing...
The netball court is dominated at playtime by the boys playing football.

I guess ofsted and SATS and everything tend to make state schools focus just on maths and literacy? I see posts also from friends in other countries where education seems more rounded.
I do take mine to load of sports activities as I work in a flexible job, but can see that for parents who work FT its just not feasible all the time: commuting, siblings, trying to sort meals out etc are challenging.
Hence I'd like to see schools offer better accessible provision - doesn't have to be free, but at least on school premises would be massively beneficial.
I guess I'd just like to see all DC having the chance to do a physical activity every day. That could be street dance, netball, hockey etc. Boys and girls together

In any other area such as maths and reading, expectations for boys and girls are the same

Exactly how are the expectations different for boys & girls at your school? I think you mean something about informal expectations of who will be interested or even try, which is why it's nebulous & I can't understand.

I'd just like to see all DC having the chance to do a physical activity every day.

There are a lot of PE haters on MN who shudder at idea they might have had to do that.

PE in state primary schools varies because some schools just don’t have good PE enthusiasts on the staff, so they do the minimum. Others do netball, (hockey is unusual at Y3), football, cross country, swimming, gym and athletics. Every single sporty child I know did sport outside school.

My DDs would have hated rugby and football. Some girls find team “contact”
sports a complete turn off. Me included! Others obviously love them. Sport every day of the week would have made mine cross too! What about other subjects that are neglected?

If you go Private, lacrosse may be on offer for the girls! Like music, art, MFL and drama, sport in primary schools is a minority subject but gets way more time than any of the other these other subjects. The interests of every child cannot be accommodated. We all have to do our bit for extra keen children in whatever area of learning interests them.

Getting children excited about PE at a young age is more than 'another subject' its about having a healthy, happy nation and giving children an alternative to computer games etc. I also lament the lack of music and MFL etc but its in everyone's interests that these children get exercise and not only that enjoy it.

I find this very sad:
'I'd just like to see all DC having the chance to do a physical activity every day.

There are a lot of PE haters on MN who shudder at idea they might have had to do that.'
It is people passing on their prejudices to their children. The OP did say the 'chance' which doesn't suggest its compulsory. PE teaches you lots of people skills as well as sports. You learn about working as a team and making the best out of the team you have. These are keys skills for life?

I was bullied in school. I was terrible at PE. I wonder if morePE would just have been lots more opportunities for the bullies to find an excuse to be horrid to me.

While I think PE is important I think physical activity is also part of the parent's responsibility and therefore shouldn't be done every day in school unless you extend the school day significantly.

Most of my DD's sport activities are done outside of school, there is no pool at school and unfortunately no space to keep horses and no dance facility.

I think school PE is a lot of team sport which , like my DD, does not suit every child. I would love to see a larger variety of sports offered but accept that, especially in primary, there is a lack of space, specialist teacher and money.

We are lucky with DD's school, they are quite sporty and apart from the two lessons a week they offer, partly free, school clubs, before and after school with children also taken on a more competitive level if they have the ability and time, like a swim group, lacross team, cross country, football and rugby.

But I would love more gymnastic (the two clubs have a waiting list which means a child in Y3 may join 2 years later), table tennis, badminton, athletics.

We always taught DD that you can't choose your school PE sport but you have to make the best of it. She is awful with a ball, has significant issues with hand-eye coordination so most sports offered are a bit of a mess for her but she carries on and does her best. She def excels outside school with her chosen hobbies though.

You have to have a pretty good disposable.income to do sport out of school though. We pay for swimming lessons for our 2 kids and that in itself with brownies/rainbows is pretty much all we can afford.

I agree in principal parents should be responsible for their children doing sport but reality is this isn't true for a significant number of children. DS1 is Year 3 but about 1/3rd of his class have never been to a swimming lesson. One girl in his class has wealthy parents but they both work full-time and don't have the time to take her to out of school sports (they run their own company) and she just does after school club which is only sports once per week (they also work on weekends...). Lots of the low income families dont do any sports outside of school..

It’s not just money that’s a barrier to club sports. When I was teaching Year 4, there was a boy with huge cricket talent. He was desperate to join a club and play at a higher level than we were doing in class, so I contacted the local club and they offered him a free place.

However, his mum had 3 younger children, including a baby, and just couldn’t manage to get him to training from 9-11 on a Sunday morning. I was unfortunately driving my DD to her training in the opposite direction at that time, so couldn’t help.

Competitive sport needs commitment ( from child and family), time, equipment (often expensive) and organisation.

IME years 5 and 6 are when the gap comes in. Seems standard for boys to join in with whatever is being played on playground (football/basketball usually) but only a handful of girls. The girls tell me that the boys don't pass/share, ignore the rules, and the girls get fed up.

You shouldn't have to be an outstanding player to continue in sport. You should be encouraged to play whatever your ability. Boys seem to feel entitled to play and girls have to be GOOD to be included.

Same as the sports news. Loads of sport (aka Men's Sport but thats just default sport right) and the occasional item on "Women's Sport" if a team has done particularly well. Well done ladies

Dd's primary school runs (at £10/hour so not free) after school clubs that are divided into ten separate activities (two a day).
Of those ten, only three could be considered 'sport' (or even 'physical activity') - football, ballet, martial arts.
The kids spend a lot of time after school in sedentary activities.

The barriers to the school offering more physical activities are cost, staffing and facilities.
This is at an OFSTED outstanding primary.

Yes, in an ideal world, parents would either be SAHPs or leave work at 2pm and take their kids to activities but as its no longer the 1950s the reality is many parents are at work.
Most parents in our area take their kids to sports activities at the weekend but two 1 hour sessions a week really isn't enough.

There's also an issue that beginners lessons outside of school tend not to be available for older kids. So even children (and parents) who are willing and can afford them find they can't start to learn a sport at age 8.

But you can't expect the school to be responsible to help with everything. You would think school needs to teach proper music as not everybody has money/time for lessons. You would think school has to teach proper home economics, money saving skills and whatever else on life skills parents can't/won't do at home.

It would be great but it just doesn't work. I think schools, by pure lack of time and resources, have to concentrate on the teaching core subjects.

DD is in a fortunate position, we have time and funds to pay for outside sport. And I see the restrictions of full time working parents and families with siblings, my closest friends have problems finding classes which fits the time table.

Not sure if it different in the UK but in Germany where I went to a co-ed school, PE was split by gender from Y6 onwards. We girls did a lot more "girly" sport (gymnastic, dance) than the boys (more team sport). We still did the core sport activities, often linked with competitions on town level, but we girls felt more at ease with just being girls than a mixed group.

Maybe splitting the classes, similar to some schools teaching science and maths now, could be done for PE as well.

Why should children who don’t really like sport be forced to do even more of it? I have no problems with reasonable amounts but my children thrived with dance, drama, music and art too. They are needed for a healthy mind! Sport is not for everyone and I hate the idea that unless children are force fed sport they are lazy fat sloths who are attached to a computer for hours on end. This is grossly unfair. My children thrived doing what they were good at. That wasn’t much sport but it was dance, drama, music and art. I am happy with that. At least I didn’t have to listen to screaming abusive parents on the touch line every week!

Bubbles one could argue that dance is a form of sport to be fair as its physical activity, pushes children to challenge themselves and can have a competitive edge depending on what they do.
A lot of adults do accept and pass on the 'I never likes PE' ethos due to poor practice in years gone by.
The vast majority of under sixes in nursery and reception love running about and playing outdoor games... yet some how by Yr3 have split themselves by gender and most girls decided that PE is not for them. I have worked with numerous girls as a coach who change their mind with a bit of support.
I still think that state schools like ours should challenge why girls opt of of PR and why boys think choir and in fact drama are only for girls
I'm going to speak to one of the governors.. no point taking to HT as he's been there for years and it's been the same for years

I see you say there is no point in taking it to the HT, but, as you have research to back it up, and you aren't looking to 'make a complaint' or 'get things changed for your daughter', then maybe they would be open to having a meeting - particularly if you have any ideas about how they could change the practice without (and this bit is crucial) it costing the school anything.
Or is there a newer Deputy, or an enthusiastic person amongst the "PE Staff", or even an interested Governor (or maybe a Governor with responsibility for equality) that you could get onside ?

I think it would be great if you had the energy and drive to persuade the school to look at the research and some ideas of how to inspire all the children to enthusiastically try everything offered at the school - be that choir or hockey. I think the key is some suggestions of how to go about it, rather than just going in with the criticisms though.

I totally agree that dance is brilliant. My DD2 did tap, modern and ballet. If you do tap you are fit!

However, it is the insistence by many that it must be team games, played outside and it must be competitive. Only the really good sporty children actually enjoy this and others are never in teams, find it difficult and it totally puts them for for life. Dance gets away from that and obviously has a musical side too. However, few schools consider it worthwhile but it is a definite way forward for girls especially, but not exclusively of course. They tend to want to do it rather than being forced to do it.

Schools have to follow the national curriculum and give a certain amount of time to sport. Primary schools struggle with a variety of sport and unless your school is wealthy, do not expect much to change. If they can buy in coaching then that may be a way forward but mostly, and where I am a governor, the specialists teach the teachers.

There has been quite a lot of money coming from the government for sports equipment and you should familiarise yourself on what the school has done with this and what benefit the children have had. Ask the governors for the information they receive about sport in school from the Head to include how the money is spent in the school and what outreach training there has been. What difference has the money made? We are a sporty school with keen teachers and run teams. Parents help with transport at times. Not all schools are that lucky.

Lifechallenges - how can girls opt out of PE? Are you actually talking about the lessons (should be compulsory) or sporty clubs, either before/after or lunchtime?

I think the second version is totally up to the child in question. DD did hockey for 2 1/2 years, gave up, tried again for 1 term and gave up again. I don't mind, she does enough physical activities to live without an extra 45 minutes. I think as long as children do some kind of physical activity they should be able to choose how to spend their time.

If the girls opt out due to the lack of offers, they it is good to talk to the school. Ours didn't offer dance and gymnastics until a teacher came along who did it herself on regional level and was happy to coach in her free time. Other sport clubs are heavily subsidised by the PTA. Maybe see if funding can come from somewhere.

As I said before, it may also be worth thinking of offering single gender clubs.

PE as compulsory lesson can be fun, but again it depends on who runs it and what is on offer. Our school swaps each 1/2 term/term and it means you always find some kind of sport you enjoy. But then, the school channels a decent amount of funding into outside coaches, they make it interesting and challenging as well. Sticking a whole year with one or two sports is a nightmare for lots of children, incl. boys actually.

The problem also goes a lot deeper, look at lots of TV/books aimed at pre-teen girls. Apart from horse riding, dance and the odd "outsider" like Bella and the Bulldogs you find more girly topics and how to spend your time with shopping and make up.

All interesting ideas and thoughts thanks. The girls have to do the class PE but it does not mean they are actively engaged such that they then think to do more outside of school hours. They then never get better at any of it. My DC can tell you which 6-8 girls in any year are the sporty ones and will tell you that they rest do no sports. I'll ask where the sports premium money goes as all after school clubs are paid for ones and they never have enough equipment or team kits

We are moving from local state school for exactly this reason for dd2. She's younger than year 3 but she already wants a lot more sport in her life and with both of us working clubs outside school in the evenings are killing us!

People keep banging on about dance but in the real world how many boys do dance? I was keen for my son to try ballet but he would have been on his own surrounded by girls with headbands on so instead he does gymnastics where atleast there is another boy. So all this talk about girls (mostly) not liking outdoor team sports doing dance whatabout the boys who dont like outdoor team sports?
Our state primary does one sport a term. That's it. Same sport at the afterschool club. So if its not your bag that's tough for a whole term. Its not hard to see how 75% of the olympians go to private schools is it?

This is why I think pe should be split in primary from about juniors onwards.

Because that's when girls get turned off trying things because the boys start to tower above them or become faster and stronger than the girls and automatically start passing/playing among themselves. The girls never get a fair try.

Dd says she hates football except she's never had the chance to try and play when it's just been the girls. Same with rugby and some other sports.

Dds school let's the girls and boys try the same sports but obviously they do pe together.

She is a good cricketer and was/is on the school girls cricket team.

Yr 5 at DGS’s school is doing ‘dance’ as this term’s PE lessons. You can imagine how well this goes down with the boys, and a lot of the girls. Our National Curriculum is a joke.