last minute indecision on primary school app.. choosing between polar opposite schools!

[RainAndRoses]

Deadline is Monday. Constantly doubting/swapping my choice over which to put first! We have a reasonably good chance of getting into either. Both Ofsted outstanding (school A inspected back in 2009 tho but same headteacher now, school B 2014).

Before I start, either would genuinely be great, we feel very lucky, but we still have to decide!

School A: amazing on their behaviour, kids are so proud of their school. Really well structured, loads of well planned trips. Older kids help look after the little ones. 25-30% Catholic (we are not). Good SATs results. On instinct we preferred this school/the head.

School B: really REALLY close. Strong emphasis on developing creativity, and independent learning. Brilliant school kitchen. We already know a fair few families who attend.

Both are 1-form entry. Parents at both schools positive about them.

One factor we've been weighing up is whether our DS would do better with more structure (school A) or more freedom (school B). He's quite imaginative, but also loves following/listening to a teacher and doing directed tasks (ahem, when from others, not nec when from us!).

Any ideas about HOW to decide?

Hmm it sounds like your 'gut' is pointing towards school A whereas your rational, objective mind is saying 'but hang on...'

In which case I'd say go with your gut and hence for school A. It feels right to you, and that matters more than anything else.

DS is at a school a bit like your school A. Outstanding catholic school, with last OFSTED in 2008. Bit further away than our alternative, but cyclable (and nowadays we often walk, a brisk 20-25 minutes walk). Family feel, happy children, good behaviour.
We were not very keen on the religious aspect and 'objectively' should probably have gone for our alternative but it just felt more right. We thought the positives made up for the 'downsides' (religion, greater distance).

In hindsight, well the school has changed radically since we chose it (new head) and some of the things that drew us to it have since disappeared, leaving us with the (to us) downsides. We've been especially disappointed with the provision for more able children. DS is in a very strong cohort, which means that the school recognises no need to especially stretch/challenge any children beyond having them on the 'top table' which frequently means no stretching/challenging at all. The emphasis on Y6 SATS, and results in general, is huge.

And yet we do not regret our choice as such. Having friends with kids at each of our alternatives, we see that things aren't better there either. Each of our alternatives has also had new heads, and has thus also changed nearly beyond recognition.

So if new heads are likely at both schools, you're really in the dark. There is nothing really objective to base your choice on rationally, apart from distance (and religion, perhaps, as everything else is likely to change. Which is why I'd go with 'gut' and not try to explain your choice rationally!

Thanks brill, super helpful to hear your experience which does sound very similar.

I think you are right, the two constants in all this is that school B will always be closer, and school A will always be Catholic. Because of the likelihood of new heads (and ALSO because school A's MAT is struggling and school B likely to become an academy in next 4 yrs), the rest of the school could go up or down radically.

Really interested to hear what you say about their (lack of) provision for the more able. It's something I'm wondering now, if their main emphasis is on getting a really good average then pushing a more able pupil doesn't get much of a pay off..

So, on all of that basis, we should prob go with school B.

[One other factor which has been hard to account for is a Y6 showed us round school A, and the head showed us round school B. You get a very different impression!]

Thanks again all. (And of course further comments welcome).

Being shown round by year 6 pupils shows that that school trusts their oldest pupils to be mature, welcoming and able to engage with adults. Don't see this as a negative. Does school B produce kids at year 6 that are mature and ready to face SATS and secondary school and interact with others well. Depends on the kids that showed you round. By entrusting a visit to kids, school will understand that you may ask questions that they would give an honest kids answer to. Head teacher tour may not always give you that honesty. Had this experience recently when touring secondary schools.

Oh exactly Brendans!! This is in part why our instinct had been school A from the start.. really impressive, and gave great insight into the school I thought, ie the things the kids actually care about!

But maybe the school B kids would have done an equally good job, we just don't know

My school gets y6 (well, the equivalent) to show parents around. It's great in my opinion - you get to meet the children who attend the school, get an idea of what values/ speaking skills etc the school tries to instill in the kids, and what that looks like as they get ready to leave. You also get to hear about the school from the pupils themselves.

Generally I would say to go with distance if there's not too much of a difference between the schools, but here I don't see that as a deal breaker.

How much should I worry about school A's (very large) MAT being in trouble? The school have explicitly said they may need to make staff cuts as a result, which sounds bad.. since this is a good school might they even try to take some of the teachers from it to cover ones which are struggling?? I have no idea how MATs work..

I'd be a bit wary re a MAT in trouble as that will lead to cuts: normally to support staff. I have a good mate that does a lot of supply work. She says she likes RC schools overall as lots are good on the Christian values ethos but she also says that a higher proportion of time is spent on religion and prayers and masses etc
Schools which focus highly on academic success at SATS also put off some parents who may not be academic themselves or want this for their children i.e. Want a more creative school... so then the parents who choose that school may also be heavily focused that way.
I had no idea and would never have anticipated at age 4 that one of my children actually loves art and drawing as well as sport and that the other thrives on music, drame and sports.!!!

Our 3 form entry school is massively oversubscribed so does parent show rounds on morning a week for weeks in Autumn term with HT or deputy. I'm not sure yr6 would be able to answer parents questions e.g. About phonics strategy, SEN support, dyslexia support, school improvement plans etc !!
The year six do however help out as reception / yr1 reading buddies as various other things

Go with your instinct. School A.

Reading your messages OP it comes across very clearly that you prefer school A. Your backbrain has been working on the problem for a while so I would trust your instincts.

Well quite Life.. all a bit guessing in the dark as to what exactly DS will take to.

So. We've submitted it. School B in first place, school A in second.

Can still change it in the next 24 hrs but in the end (at the moment!) it came down to:

• uncertainty over school A's MAT, esp. the (certain) staffing cutbacks
• whatever happens to either school, school B will always be really close, and with such a small catchment area will be easier for playdates etc (since no car)
• school B maybe being more flexible, depending on whatever direction DS takes
• school A's focus on SATs maybe not actually helping if he were a high achiever
• us not being Catholic
• school B (well both schools) seemingly being up for parent-led contributions, so if there really was an area we felt needed support, we could help out with this!

One of my big concerns was parent-teacher communication also for school B (didn't even mention in this thread I don't think!), but have been looking through lots of the weekly newsletters and the class blogs for school B, and they're nice.

Still feel there's a lot of uncertainty when the head at school B retires, and when they become an academy, but they seem to have a strong enough ethos to hopefully weather those things (and equally, big change could happen at both schools). And that school B may be rather less 'organised' than school A, which could wind me up, but heyho undoubtedly useful life lessons there for DS and me

Thanks for bearing with me all!

PS - posted that before saw the latest 2 posts! Ah, maybe will have to see how feel in the morning. OH claims he's now feeling reasonably confident in school B (we were both for school A before, he hasn't been for school B all along). It's true my instinct was for school A e.g. before xmas, but then I visited school B again last Wed and that was when started to have bigger doubts. Then, on Fri finding out about school A's MAT performing really badly also started pushing things towards school B...

If you're still in doubt in the morning, flip a coin with your DH. It will show your true feelings as you'll either have an immediate and instinctive pang of 'yay' or a pang of 'no' - and that will tell you more than anything else. I am a big believer in gut instinct!

A teacher friend of mine had a nightmare in an academy school which had messed up its funding. They basically cut senior teachers and support staff and so there was no support for the teachers either side. Behaviour problems escalated quickly and it was incredibly stressful. I think cuts will be happening almost everywhere at the moment but if they are already warning it might be worse.
Being v close to school is brilliant for the school run too.

Interesting Allthebubbles. Was that a primary or secondary?

Yes cutting senior posts out saves biggest salaries. Cutting support staff and teaching assistants means teachers have less support

PS. I'd prob feel more excited about school A. But if anything went wrong or wasn't that great, I'd perhaps feel worse about picking it/regret it more. If that makes sense.

PS. I'd prob feel more excited about school A. But if anything went wrong or wasn't that great, I'd perhaps feel worse about picking it/regret it more. If that makes sense.

PS. I'd prob feel more excited about school A. But if anything went wrong or wasn't that great, I'd perhaps feel worse about picking it/regret it more. If that makes sense.

PS. I'd prob feel more excited about school A. But if anything went wrong or wasn't that great, I'd perhaps feel worse about picking it/regret it more. If that makes sense.

(aargh sorry computer playing up)

I have nothing to intelligent to add but share your feelings of how can I still be agonising about this decision at the last minute! We submitted ours last night after changing our mind every 10 minutes. I have also gone against all MN advice in making my decision so am doubly nervous!

Thanks Fratercula. Agonising is the right word. Still doubting the decision a bit. Well done for deciding tho.

Have you picked one op?